Elizabeth Jameson
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Elizabeth Jameson is an artist and writer who explores what it means to live in an imperfect body as part of the universal human experience. Before her diagnosis of multiple sclerosis, she served as a public interest lawyer representing incarcerated children; she later represented children living with chronic illnesses and disabilities in their attempts to receive medically necessary care.
As her disease progressed, she began using her MRI’s to create art as a way of reclaiming agency of her own medical data. She transformed the unsettling, clinical images into work that invites people to open up conversations about what it means to have an illness or disability. Her work is part of permanent collections both nationally and internationally, including the National Institutes of Health, major universities, and medical schools.
She now writes personal essays and speaks across the country sharing her experiences living with illness and disability. Her essays have been published by The New York Times, British Medical Journal, WIRED magazine, and MIT’s Leonardo Journal. Her essay, “Losing Touch, Finding Intimacy,” was included in the New York Times book, About Us, released in September 2019 by Norton Publishing.
Many of her lectures at medical schools and symposiums have been recorded and shared, including her TedX talk, “Learning to Celebrate and Embrace Our Imperfect Bodies.”
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Welcome to the Enabled Disabled Podcast. I'm your host, Gustavo Serafini. I was born with a rare physical disability called PFFD. My journey has been about self-acceptance persistence and adaptation. On the show, we'll explore how people experience disability, how the stories we tell ourselves can both enable and disable, how vulnerability is a foundation for strength and why people with disabilities can contribute more than we imagine. I hope that leaders, companies, clinicians, families and friends will better understand our capacity to contribute to the world and help enable us to improve it.
Elizabeth Jameson is an artist and writer who explores what it means to live in an imperfect body as part of the universal human experience. Before her diagnosis of multiple sclerosis, she served as a public interest lawyer representing incarcerated children as well as children with chronic illness who were being denied medically necessary care. My talk with Elizabeth was enlightening. Interesting, engaging. I think the biggest takeaway that I had is how unbelievably humble she is. She has accomplished so much and has shown such resilience. And yet when you say that somebody is humble, they're not usually humble like Elizabeth.
Is she's humble to her core and you can feel it with the way she answers her questions and the way she views the world. We have an exciting announcement. We recently activated a recording feature on our website where you can ask past guest questions as well as future guests. If we get enough questions for past guests, we'll invite them back to answer your questions. Stay tuned to the newsletter where we'll be previewing future guests and taking your questions ahead of time. Just go to www. Enableddisable.com and press the Start Recording button to leave your questions. Thanks for listening. See you soon.
Elizabeth. It is such a joy to see you again. Thank you so much for being on the show. I'm really excited to have you here.
I'm excited to be here. Thank you.
You're welcome. So I would like to really take this time with you to celebrate who you are as a person, all the amazing work that you've done and there with the audience, your joy, your passion for work, all of the energy that you still have and what you're trying to do to make the world a little bit of a better place. So I think you have a very powerful story with kind of started from you were an attorney previously, and you defended children who were incarcerated and then children who had disabilities or chronic conditions that needed medical care.
Is that correct?
Yes.
Can you tell us a little bit about what drew you to that kind of work and why you were moved to go into that space?
Yeah, I'll try. Ever since I was young, I knew I wanted to change the world. And I had a dream as a little girl of ending the world of hunger. And I personally is going to feed the entire world. I thought I could do it. And I thought maybe I could also bring about world peace. That's how Ariane I was. But I was young and I was ambitious. And I thought, Well, why can't I make the world a better place? And let's start with ending all war.
So that's how I was young. And I knew that I want to have meaning, that my life would have meaning for other people. And I don't know why I always had that mission in my mind. And personally, I'm Catholic. I wanted to be a nun until I discovered I couldn't get married. And I had questions on boys so that desire being none if quickly evaporated into the high. But the mission never escaped my mind.
And the mission there is the most important thing. So I know that obviously you can probably tell us a whole bunch of goodness depressing or sobering facts and experiences from your time as a lawyer. But if we dig in a little deeper, what did you learn from that experience? What was your takeaway of why the work you were doing mattered so much, how you were making a difference, or maybe something that you learned about people that you weren't expecting to know.
I loved my work. I was a civil rights lawyer, and I started out in jail's prisons first job wasn't adult prisons, and I love my clients. I didn't know them intimately. But I so was hauled by the conditions in which they were confined in. And I thought that being human and we're treating people like dogs. And I went from doing adults. Then I went to involving children wearing jails and prisons and jewel halls. And I spent many years traveling in the country investigating how kids were being treated incarcerated.
And that was so black and white. There was no Gray I loved. It was just so meaningful and wonderful in every day was so great because we could really help people and use the law as a way of helping kids really needed help. So it was great. And at that time, before my diagnosis, I was doing separate law. Everything was black and white. There were people who needed help, and I was a lawyer. I was going to help them. When I stopped being a lawyer and became an artist.
I discovered Gray. And I now think life is much more full of Gray and shades of Gray and not just black and white. And that's maturity and how I've learned to aging the nuances of living with Gray.
That's really interesting. So when the world was more black and white for you, you are coming from the perspective of I'm right. Like, I know that I'm trying to do good, and I know that these people are being mistreated and I'm going to fix it. Is that correct?
Yes. And I still feel that way. And there's so much black and white, and we could do so much with the horrible injustices that we need to stand up and be accounted for. And so I believe in black and white. But I also think there's also lots of Grays and subtleties of Gray. And that's what I've been dealing with in terms of disability, because there's a lot of subty in terms of how we live in life and how people treat us as someone with a disability.
Before we shift into the really interesting Grace, I want to just ask you for the disability activists out there for the attorneys out there who are doing this, this great social work, what was the most what was the most powerful tool that you used as an attorney to help make change, to help make an impact in these people's lives.
One of my favorite clients was Alexander Singh. He was born with a genetic disability, and he had a trake. He still has a trake, and we're still wonderful friends. He was six months old when I first represented him because his insurance company refused to pay for nursing care in order to keep them alive. On a tricky anime. And we sued. It's not just me. There was a group of people in there. There was a group effort. We suit the insurance company because insurance company said that he would only allow 30 days of in home nursing care.
And the major of nursing care is to be provided by the mother. And of course, the mother works. And she had her insurance covered because she was working. She quit her job. There went her health insurance. So that's what the insurance company wanted is to have her insurance company dropped. So they need to face reimbursing the nursing care. And so she hired me and my organization, as well as other lawyers who join me pro Bono. And we sued the insurance company and all children in California who had tracheotomies.
And we were successful in allowing all people with tracheotomies to have all the medical care that was medically necessary. It turns out about near 24 hours a day we're seeing here. So it was so willing and exciting. And despite the fact that people thought Alexander would die, this is severely disabled. He's driving. He's a writer, and he's my son's age. He's growing up to be an absolutely gorgeous young man. And he's my great friend. And here I'm disabled. I'm a quadriplegiac. And now I can call and talk to Alexander about, oh, God, it's so awful being a quad.
He just laughs out loud and thinks, what do you know about having this disabled disability? My life get used to it. So he laughs. And we have a good time, and we thought life would be. I was as lawyer in the courtroom, and now he's my buddy. It's amazing what happens in life. We're both equal, truly equal. And he's the one who has the knowledge and wisdom, not me. I love that lesson of life. Just comes and delivers whatever wants to you and we have to be joyous and welcome.
Whatever mess is delivered, life is messy, and this should show we just have to deal with the messy life we all live.
That is very well said. And that is such a powerful story in so many ways. Can you tell us a little bit about when you were diagnosed with Ms? What was your adjustment process like, what was that messy? Interesting. Like, what did you struggle with some of the things that you learned from it and let's dive deeper into all of those things? Because I love how open you are to acknowledge the mess and to acknowledge how messy life is, but also to find a way to embrace it and find joy in it and learn from it.
I'm looking at you and laughing because when I first talked with you, I thought, oh, how could I not be joyous talking to you? Because you're having this big, huge grin smiling me, and I feel like, oh, I meet the most wonderful people. I'm really glad to be staring at you and looking at your wonderful smile and answers your question. What was the question? Well, when I was first diagnosed with Ms, I was healthy, athletic. I wasn't sick. I was a badass lawyer. Or so I thought, in my youthful arrogance clinic, I started having all sorts of symptoms, and I thought, oh, my God, there are two people in the waiting Zoom in wheelchairs.
I thought I'm not going to be in a wheelchair, and I didn't even want to look at the people in wheelchairs. That's how just not dismissive. But it was so scary to me see people in wheelchairs because I was not going to be in a wheelchair. Well, guess what. Now I'm in a wheelchair and I'm a quadriplegic. I have no use of any part of my body. Really. I'm paralyzed basically from the neck down, and it's been slow loss and loss and loss, like ripping loss.
So I got really in terms of how much progression I've had has allowed me to adjust. Loss to loss. I went from being a lawyer, and then I went, oh, shit. What am I going to do? Because I love being a public interest lawyer. That was my mission. And when I could no longer break this law, that was devastating for me, because that's how I define myself right there, wrongly as a Changemaker. And when I ended up realizing I can no longer break this law with my disabilities, I stumbled upon art by handstand.
I've never been an artist, never owned paintbrushes, really, never at all to be an artist that I discovered from a small art class. I loved it, and I kept pursuing it at a University. And I enrolled in many art classes. And I ended up becoming an artist. And when I was a young artist, I was pretty successful in terms of when I say successful, meaning, I was able to sell my work, and I got really bored. I thought, Well, I can do wonderful still life paintings and portraiture.
I love doing it, but it wasn't what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a public interest artist. I couldn't be a public interest where, well, I'm going to be a public artist, whatever that means. I don't know what that meant, but I went around to sell you another organization and said, Can I do some artwork for you for free? And let me see, what would that look like of various nonprofits? They were all thrilled to give me assignments. And one nonprofit actually do a series of portraits of famous, inspirational women.
And I thought, My God, I can do public interest art. And after I did assist working for other organizations, I decided, you know what? This doesn't make sense. I want to do something for my people, which is Ms. So I knew what I want to do. And that was to do something with my MRIs. Mris are neurological tests that most people who have the luxury of great health care. We get MRIs to track the progression of our disease. And I've had many, many, many MRIs and me, they were ugly, depressing, scary images of the brain.
And I didn't want to look at them. I didn't want to acknowledge, didn't want to stare at them for sure. And I decided, as an artist, I have to do something. But these images, because that to me, was a symbol of Ms, was the MRI, because even people who had minor symptoms and those who have great symptoms like myself, we still all have common denominator of the MRI. And so I spent about three, four years trying to figure out how in the world can I make art out of neurological testing medical data.
And I finally discovered a technique of etchings. And I etched my brain, my MRIs of my brain. And then I went to town and colored these etchings of my brain on copper prints. And I developed in the sun, it's solar etchings of my brain. Then colorized them. And that's what I've done for four or five years. And I was really so excited to take medical imaging and make them not only in the scientists or medical person's realm, I want to take it into the patient's world.
I want to control my data. And I thought all of us should be able if we want to control our data and color it's whatever color we want. When I say color, just take ownership of your MRIs colors, darker colors, larger colors, a lot of gold. Because to me, Samurai is the most sacred parts of the brain, sacred parts of the body, because the brain is the locust of our personality. So that is a public interest artist. They can do something, maybe for people with Ms and for scientists to really understand.
And maybe they already do. But I want to reemphasize courage them. Take a new look at the humanity of the brain. A lot of neuroscientists have really enjoyed what I've done. Enjoyed or fascinated how you can gain a different perspective if you colorize the brain. Oh, that's what I've done.
No, you've done more than that. But we're going to which we're going to get into. But this whole idea of taking control of your data and taking control of and colorizing and reimagining or looking at yourself in new ways. I was born with my disability and I know that for many years, maybe in some sense, I still do. It depends on the day, but I never liked mirrors. I never liked looking at myself in the mirror. I never liked seeing myself on video because it was a reminder of a part of me that I didn't always want to be reminded of.
How did taking these MRI scans and images help you or help you better be more friendly with yourself to embrace your life situation, to take control of it. How did it turn you? But how did a perspective shift? Not with the artwork on how you saw your own disability and your own condition?
That's a great question. And one I think about a lot because it made me love the brain and I'm fascinated by the brain. I keep reading more and more books about neuroscience and the brain. I met many Neurosciences since I began this endeavor and makes me really form a real relationship with my disease. And I talked to you a little bit about it. It's my new desire to understand how I feel about multiple sclerosis. I have huge lesions in my brain and you can see them in my MRI instead, feeling ugly.
And I don't want to look these holes in my brain. But the fact that one radiologist said in the radiology report, this person either has Alzheimer's or multiple sclerosis. Her brain is drunken, really small. And I was terrified when I read that. And now I and my neurologist said really doesn't mean much. It depends what you do. Not so much what the report says now, I think, God, I'm fascinating what these holes these images portray. I'm really interested in the brain and I'm trying to really respect my disease.
What a weird, complicated, powerful, fascinating friend anatomy, friend enemy. Whatever that term is like, I just so respect my disease. My love it. I hate it. I love it. It's a really intimate relationship with all intimate relationships. It's filled with the good, the bad, the ugly. And that's my mental focus now is trying to felt intimate relationship of kindness, compassion for my disease. This is progressive, and I want to love my disease if it means I can hate it too, because there are times when it really pisses me off, and I don't like, give me a break, but I want to really sort of like I feel about my husband.
I adore him, but sometimes it gets me really mad, angry as all good relationships I like, and I just want that type of relationship with my disease. I don't want to hate my disease, and I feel that my artwork has really given me a deep perspective. I'm not sure other people would have that journey, but for me, it's so interesting and safety acreage and images. I've talked with other people with spinal cord injury. I've worked with their MRIs and their MRIs. I don't have one of the bone.
Mrs. Bone are fascinating and gives me incredible love, real interest in other people's MRIs. I think it's really informed how I want to deal with my disease. And when my disease progressed to my arms and shoulders and feet so I could no longer be an artist, I decided, well, what am I going to do? And I decided the only thing I can't do, I think is right. So I've been waiting a lot since I could no longer still be an artist. And boy, I was so devastated when I couldn't practice law, and now then I was unbelievably devastated.
I couldn't do art anymore when I started to be really confident with my art tools and my skills. So now I'm writing. But with such pain, it's really hard being a writer. I think it's the hardest skill in the world. And so that's what I'm doing. Just doing what I can. And I want to really come to grips with my Ms, the words and to show why dispelling matters and why we have to come to get. I think we have to be nice if one can really experience disabilities part of being human.
We're all human beings are messy and imperfect lives, but we all are imperfect and one more than another. And if we could all really understand it, I think would the idea of disability as being some weird status which needs laws to protect dignity and to recognize the beauty disability? I just think we can maybe do that if we learn more about our life. I'd like to know more about your life. I think it's so all fascinating.
I love that perspective so much, Elizabeth, and I think it is not something that I came at. It from a different approach. But I love this idea of being Kinder to ourselves, of taking whatever it is that we're going through, whether it's loss, whether it's a disability, whatever it is in our lives and being open enough to try to understand it, to approach it from a friendly perspective and say, hey, look, my disability is a part of me. Why don't I want to become friends with that intimate, vulnerable, messy part of myself.
It helps me understand myself better, helps me understand other people better. And it helps us the fear that so many people have of aging, of what we're going to lose, of what's going to be taken away from us. You've flipped the script on that and said, well, what can I do? What can I contribute? What can I learn? So I'm amazed at your curiosity, your ability to deal with a loss and make further gains from it. I know it's hard, but it's remarkable too, because you could have given up.
You could have stopped. You could have become bitter. But you didn't. You chose another path, and I think that merits that's something that we should celebrate. That's something that we should amplify. And I know a lot of that is from your own personality. But what were some of the things that anchors or the places that you went to and yourself that we can help other people go to when they're struggling as well?
Thank you for all your kind words. I think I'm going to duck that question because I feel so blessed that I've had the income level to afford great medical care. I've been through so many wheelchairs as my disease progress, and I have great cushions. So my butt sits on a great cushion. Well, you have their money to have a good cushion on your wheelchair, and you have to have cash because insurance probably is not going to pay for that good cushion. And Medicare does not pay for that great cushion.
And if I didn't get the great cushion, I couldn't write, I couldn't do artwork because I would be in pain. And I feel so blessed that I've been so lucky that I've been able to be ambitious. So I don't know if I'm talking a question, but I'm just so aware of how blessed I have been to have good medical care and good equipment in order to fulfill my vision. I'm so ambitious now, even though I'm getting more and more disabled, I feel like, what can I do now?
How can I get back? And I'm really aware of the luck. My disease hasn't progressed to such that I can't talk anymore. That's my next vulnerability is I'm trying to lose some of my ability to speak and that terrifies me. I think I won't be a nice, wonderful Suzy Sunshine. If my voice is taken from me, my diaphragm is getting weaker and weaker and a good diaphragm in order to produce voice. I don't want to portray a picture that anyone with a mask can be an artist or writer.
I mean, anyone who is really good luck and it really is the money to have good health insurance. Maybe they can, but I'm so lucky. I'm aware of my good fortune and luck and how lucky I am. I love my life because of luck. I don't know why I'm blessed to be able to kick ass. I still want to kick ass, but with lot of humility and with recognition how fortunate I am.
I respect that a lot. I don't think you're ducking the question, Elizabeth, but I think there are so many people who are lucky in a similar way. There are so many people who have had so many opportunities and who don't have the character or the desire to kick ass like you and to give back like you and to try to help people and understand yourself. So I would like to give you I respect your humility tremendously. But I would like to give you some real important credit there, like, you didn't have to do those things with all of your fortune and all of your the work that you did, you still could have made different choices.
And so maybe let's reframe the question a little bit. So how can we help other people understand the things that are needed for people with disabilities to be able to be put into a position, to make those contributions, to give back, to still be productive and have meaningful connections in their lives? Like, what are the things that you wish more people understood?
Can I take that one with that question? I don't want to talk of it. Well, one thing I need so much, and I think a lot of people the most need is community. And maybe as a community, we can inspire each other. And maybe we can think of ways to make people unafraid of us. I am really scary. I have a huge wheelchair, and I don't have the use of hands, and my voice sometimes works great. Other times it's really scratchy. And people oftentimes think I'm intellectually impaired because I don't talk loud and look weird and people are terrified of me.
And I think one thing I could do is just be in a shopping center and people could see me and say, I'm nice. I'm not scary. I would probably really like you. And if I didn't like your political belief, we could have a great discussion about politics. And I think people are frightened by disability. I know I was until I became disabled. I think I was taking your question.
No, it's fine. You're not ducking it. You're just so humble. And I know that none of us are Susie Sunshines all the time. And I don't know when I met you, I think within 30 seconds you're not scary. I'm so looking forward to meeting you. You're so warm. Interesting, intelligent, like your curiosity is through the roof. I can't help but feel connected to you. I want to get to know you better as well. So maybe that's the trick is how can we develop or build communities so that other people don't have to fear us, that they don't look at us as that one dimensionality of like, oh, I see that person who has a disability and that represents loss.
They're not taking the time to see everything that we've gained and everything that we learn because of that. Do you agree with that?
Yeah. We have so much to learn. I've learned so much from my clients and learn so much about disability from other of people are disabled because I wasn't disabled. I never met people like you. When I was graciling law, I didn't know how to be. I would be scared because I didn't know. What would the language be. Now I say, talk to me whenever you want to talk to me. Just don't swear it too loudly. You could swear, but don't say the worst. But we don't know unless you're introduced to the lives of the disabled.
So cultural competency or cultural curiosity? People live with disabilities. It's really important, I think, important for employers who are scared of us, they're scared of. Oh, my God. What about insurance? I don't want to get sued by them. They probably aren't intelligent. And all the stereotypes that come up, which I probably had too, because I'm not blaming people. But we all need to be closely curious to us as the disabled person, because disability means 1000 things. There are so many types of cancer, there's so many autoimmune diseases, there's so many genetic disabilities fascinating and things to be curious about.
I think if employers knew that I know your mission, it's employment based mission is to know to be educated about how many brilliant people with disabilities there are, and that could really make your company wise and be innovative. They have to know us, or they have to be willing to be curious. They're not curious. They're not going to give us the opportunity to work for us.
That is so true. Curiosity and open mindedness are tremendously important. Before I met you, I saw you in the Unfixed series with Kimberly. Kimberly has been on the show. Kimberly Warner. Can you tell us a little bit about what that experience was like and what you learned by being on that show? And I know you're also doing other projects with her. Can you tell us a little bit about what that was like, what you've learned, what you'd like to keep doing in that direction.
Along the lines, what we were just talking about. Kimberly has produced a podcast for a series of people's of all sorts of disabilities where we answer various questions of the month. And I've learned so much. I didn't know so much about brain injury. I've heard of it. I thought I knew what it was about, but not until I saw such wonderful people with traumatic brain injury. Me any understanding the Concess involved in that drama. And there's a man who really fell in love with LS. And I've seen the progression F is LS.
He can't talk. There's no ability to seem so horrifying. Absolutely horrifying to me. And I've been occasionally emailing him. He's so brilliant and at peace with his disability. And now I don't know whether it's at peace at times and arguing with disease and he's swearing his disease, but basically he's at peace. Oh, my God. Help me. I can't imagine more disabled person in the world as a person can't do anything for himself and he can blink. That's about it. I think he loves life. I don't want to speak for him, but he's a very elegant, beautiful young man, and I've never talked with anyone.
And there are so many diseases in that video series. I learned so much humility, and I've been odd by these people like, oh, my God, every month. I can't wait here. They answered these questions. So what I learned was how much I need to learn. And it's really not painful process that's like, this is great. And there's a woman who just published a book called Between Two Kingdoms and a woman who suffered from leukemia bomber transplant. And I bought the book because her lover, John Battiste, he's my favorite musician in the world.
I figured John, but he likes her. I'm going to read the book. And I learned so much from work experience with Evan Bowmare transplant and otherwise, if I didn't have that curiosity of how did Jump Tees fall in love with her? Because I want him to fall in love with me. I was just block struck by the beauty of her writing and her whole personality.
It's amazing how so much of what we need as people, right is to love and be loved and how complicated and how complicated that can become when either we have a disability or chronic condition or something, right that most people look at and say kind of push you away a little bit and not we lose some of that ability. And yet what you said is it just feels like that your journey has been reminding yourself or relearning being curious and remembering that, yes, you are capable of love and being loved, and you're still that kind, generous, curious, amazing human being.
That's my impression of it. And do you think that has some validity?
What I'm saying something I work on a lot is self love, because part of me, I don't like looking myself in the mirror. So I have to really create self compassion to realize that I'm worth it, that I have some value, even though extremely I know I've accomplished amazing things. I worry about how much burden I've brought on to my family and my husband. I feel like I'm a board a lot, not every day, but I try to work on self compassion a lot. I think maybe we all do, especially those of us in the disabled community, because, no, we're not perfect and we have to love being imperfect and human, and our society is not based on the beauty of imperfection.
It's based on perfection and Instagram photos and the idea of the perfect life, perfect spouse, perfect child, et cetera. And I think we all I think we have to do anything, but it'd be nice if we love ourselves. I think it's disabled bodies are really imperfect by any standard, and I think we have to. I know I need to really work on self compassion a lot.
We all do. I agree with you and I think the illusion of perfection is the fact that so many people embrace that. It just makes it makes it that much more difficult. And that much more traumatic. When those illusions break down and they will, at some point or another, they will break down for everybody. And on the flip side, it's so important to see the beauty in ourselves and to see embrace our imperfections, like we have so much to teach each other and so much to learn from each other.
I hadn't thought of it in quite that way before. So thank you for that. Is there something, Elizabeth that you think I've missed in the discussion that is really important to talk about?
Yeah. One thing, and I don't know how to talk about it, but one thing I know what I want to do is really Chronicle the joys I have in my life because oftentimes we don't know, we washes to us. But I try to have a recognition of joy and just small things. One is my peanut butter. I love peanut butter. And I got through by having a bunch of peanut butter with my apples every morning and lots of espresso and just small things. And the fact I've articulated peanut butter, it really makes me.
It does bring me joy. And I don't think it would if I hadn't really thought about what the things that really get me happy and songs like by John Baptiste bring me so much joy. And I'm now dancing to some of John music, and I can't move my body, but I move my head. I have Gray head moves, white wooden head moves, but any dance floor and be well down in the middle of the dance floor and dance with my neck. It's just joy. And maybe we have unbelievable amount of joy that should be on our resume.
Please hire me. Whatever silly thing I'm coming up with.
It'S true, though. I hope that one day we can dance to some music together and we can't maybe even put it on film just so people can see what all the different ways we can experience joys with different bodies and different personalities and just express all of those things that we feel that we can't really put into words.
Really. And one thing I love the artist that we've all worked with. She's unbelievable woman who really takes home to a new level in terms of recognizing what it means to be disabled, all the conversations that she is ignited to her video productions. So I really want to give a plug to Kimberly Warner. She's just an amazing woman.
I couldn't agree more. I'm so happy that I met her. I love her work, her and her partner. Her name is escaping me. But the other person she works with on the films, do you know her name? No. Okay, well, they have such a sensitivity and such an eye for how to bring us closer and connect us with all of those parts of our humanity that most people don't want to look at. And it invites you in rather than it's intimate. It's warm. It's friendly. But it's also like you said before, it doesn't hide the ugly.
It doesn't hide the messy, but it's humanizing. And it just brings me in. That when I first started watching the series, I couldn't stop watching it. I think I just watched it all the way through. It was so compelling.
The warmth in comparison. It's incredible. She's really added gift to all this. I want to give her my money to do more and more work.
Me too. Elizabeth. How can people learn more about you? Connect with you, ask you questions.
Well, I have a website. I have an email. I have Instagram all the social media, but some that I don't really use because I don't really know how without hands. Sorry for me to have access things. I'm on my email 24 hours a dayjamieson.
We can always put that in the show notes, but is it EJames?
Please?
Finer at gmail. Com?
Yes.
Okay.
I'm totally embarrassed. That's fine.
And your website is jamiesonfeineart. Com.
You got it.
Beautiful.
Nervous being interviewed by such a famous, handsome, lovely human, warm human being.
Thank you so much. Fame is not part of the equation, but thank you for saying that. I think you're incredible. I'm so happy we met. I'm so happy you're on the show. I hope we can do this again. And I'm really looking forward to meeting you soon.
Absolutely. Fort Lauderdale. Here we come.
That's right. Thank you so much. Elizabeth. Bye.
Helpful links:
Website: www.jamesonfineart.com