Millions Lost: The Unrealized Potential of Entrepreneurship and Disability
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We often read that people with a disability are especially good at solving problems, have a surplus of resilience, and utilize soft skills–like empathy–to better adapt to the world. If solving problems, resilience, and soft skills–like empathy–are common and requisite traits for entrepreneurs, why are so few people with a disability entrepreneurs, or working with entrepreneurs? What biases and narratives still exist that continue leaving people with a disability out of these opportunities? And what can we do to shift these narratives so that more companies recognize the latent and untapped potential in the disability community to start businesses or help businesses thrive? Entrepreneurs with a disability share their stories, as a way to shed light on the millions of people who are facing unnecessary roadblocks that often prevent them from realizing their true entrepreneurial potential and contributing their genius to the world.
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Millions Lost The Unrealized Potential of Entrepreneurship and Disability - powered by Happy Scribe
Let's get started. And super excited.
Guys. There's someone that has a two devices going, so there's a little bit of an echo when people speak.
Yes.
I just needed that. Thank you so much, Hoby. Yeah, that's me. No problem. So I'll just ask you to unmute once I finish, but I don't know if you see the participants, but I love seeing when the count comes up because I know that there's a lot of wonderful people coming in to those great webinars. So thank you, everybody, for being here. I know we started a little bit late, but fortunately we're going on longer than usual because we have an extra special webinar today. Thank you, everyone, again for being here. Welcome to another one of the New York Public Library's Business Centre sessions. Today we have the last of our four sessions for the Disability series, where we have been highlighting the wonderful richness that there exists between disability and entrepreneurship and business, and how wonderful and how much better the world can be when we highlight them, when we change that narrative. All right, so before we get started, what I am going to do is read you a little blurb that our legal department asks us to read you. But you can tell me, I will go super fast. All right. The library uses Zoom for this programme and does not own Zoom.
Zoom has its own privacy policy that you can read on its own page. Zoom also has closed captions if you need them, simply click on the CC button on your screen and the CC button you can find wherever you have the controls on your screen, whether it's up, down, or if you're using a smart device like a phone or an iPad. Wherever those controls are, that's where you'll find them. And then to understand how you and the library use Zoom, please go ahead and read the library's privacy policy, especially the section that refers to third party library service providers. Also a friendly reminder that at the library programmes, everyone is welcome and respected. And also a reminder that if you'd like to hear more about the programmes that we have coming up, we have some awesome programmes coming up that I will tell you at the end of this session so that we can get started. Now all you need to do is sign up for the Business Library's weekly email at the link that the team is posting right now on the chat. So, without further ado, let me go ahead and introduce our wonderful host and moderator for today.
She is Elaine Profile, who is an independent journalist and speaker who specialises in entrepreneurship and careers. You may know her from such wonderful books as The Million Dollar One Person Business and Tiny Business Big Money, because she looks at how entrepreneurs are selling to 1 million and beyond in revenue prior to hiring employees. And I know that a lot of you in here are entrepreneurs or freelancers or solopreneurs, whatever you call yourself, and are looking at getting to that seven figure mark. Well, you are in the right place with one of Elaine's books and we were so lucky to have her here today. So, Elaine, without further ado, let's the mic and the floor are all yours. Thank you for being here. I'll let you know. Continue with the programme.
Take it away.
Thank you so much, Helena. And thank you so much. And to the New York Public Library for hosting. I am always so thrilled to be part of anything at the New York Public Library because we get entrepreneurship and the spirit that drives so many of the businesses that we've talked about on these panels and just your energy and your personal love of entrepreneurship just shines through every time. I'm really excited to be part of this panel. We all became fast friends during the pre call and I felt like I could spend the whole evening talking to these panellists. And I think that the attendees are going to feel the same. These are folks who embody all the energy of entrepreneurship that's going on in this country and the world right now. There were 5 million new businesses started in the United States last year and they're being started in record numbers. And there's a reason. I think people in the pandemic really thought a lot about what is important to them and they wanted to go after their dreams. And I think after you listen to this panel, if you haven't started going after your dreams, you will want to, because everyone on this panel is so inspiring.
I'm going to give you a very brief introduction to each person and then ask each of the panellists to tell us more about them in maybe three to five minutes before we really dive into the questions. They have such great stories and I'm doing a series on Forbes about all of them so you can read more on Forbes, but they'll tell you a lot. Today we have Kathy McShane. I'll introduce each and then you'll each have a couple of minutes to talk about what you do. She is an entrepreneur and senior SBA advisor. She's been involved in a club near and Dear To My Heart, which is women Entrepreneur. She ran the US government's Office of Women's Business Ownership, which is a really important position. And then we have Gustavo Serafini, who founded Pure Audio Video with his brother, and he's a podcast host, too. A lot of fun to talk to. He runs the Enabled Disabled Podcast. And Hobby Wedler, who runs Sense Point Design. This is a panel, obviously, about entrepreneurship and disabilities, and we're going to learn a lot about what's going on currently in this area and all the different ways that people are getting involved with entrepreneurship, no matter what their situation, and turning it into an advantage.
So I would like to ask Cathy to tell us a little bit about your journey and what you're doing now. And then we'll go to Gustavo and Hobie. I did it alphabetically, in case you're wondering.
Cathy, you're muted.
Thank you for keeping me in line here, Toby. Well, first of all, entrepreneurship is one of my absolute passions, and I've been fortunate enough to really be able to live my dream. I am an immigrant, and to be able to come to this country as a disabled person and go after what I wanted is really quite amazing. And I really do encourage all of you out there, if you have a dream, go for it, because you know that expression you can't get to second with your foot on first, you'll always regret what you didn't try to do. So I strongly encourage that. My career started in the corporate world, and then in product development, I came up with new product ideas. And then I had my first child, which was frankly the most perfect product I had ever created. And I very much wanted to be a part of his life. And so I took the plunge and I started my own business. And my own business I created with my values in mind. And my first business was really around hiring people who had disabilities and believe it or not, women, because I find that disabled people, particularly women who also have families that they have to deal with, it's a really tough, tough road for them.
And I started something called job sharing, which was one of the first in the country. And everybody told me I was going to fail. And you know what? I just didn't want to believe that. I just knew it would be good for my employees, frankly, really good for my clients and really, really good for me. So I took that plunge and I started a company that grew substantially, ended up being a $6 million company. And then after that, I started a company called Ladies Launch Club, which helped women to either create a business or grow a business. And then most recently, I was asked by the government to go and run the SBA's Office of Women's Business Ownership, where we worked with underprivileged women who really wanted to be empowered. And we know that entrepreneurship does empower people. So that's a brief synopsis of who I am.
Thank you so much. Cathy and Gustavo.
Sure.
So, interestingly enough, my journey started in a similar manner to Cathy's. I was born with multiple physical disabilities in Brazil, and my parents moved to the United States when I was two years old. And I think there was an interesting process to see them develop in their careers. They both became entrepreneurs eventually and became very successful at what they did. And so I learned a lot about the sacrifice and dedication it takes to run a business, to pursue your dream, to try to improve your life, and to kind of keep pushing yourself just beyond your comfort zone. And so my entrepreneurial journey, I think, came to it was about discovering who I wanted to be and the difference that I wanted to make in the world and finally realising that it was worth the price of admission. Choosing yourself is worth the price of admission. After not having a great experience in graduate school or law school, it was like, you know what? I'm going to do this. I'm going to find my team, I'm going to find my people. And my brother and I launched Pure audio video. We've been there for 16 years now and it's been an incredible journey.
The podcast was a way to, I think, expand my reach and connection and to help amplify other people's stories about whatever it is that they're working on that had meaning for them. So that's a little bit about myself.
And before we move on, I wanted to ask you what you meant about choosing yourself. We talked about it a little bit offline, but it's a really important theme, I think, for today.
So, for me, choosing myself, it wasn't a linear experience, but it was a process of understanding that if I wanted to do something that mattered to me, I had to choose to believe in myself and to take the risk and to move forward. Like Kathy said, you can't get to second base without getting your foot off first. So whether it was a small step forward or it was a big step forward, it was deciding, this means enough, this matters enough where I need to, or I want to go down this path and put my feet in the fire. Even if it's difficult, even if it's challenging, it means that much to me that I want to do it.
Well. That's motivating me. Hopie's a guy who motto. He hasn't put it this way, but I would say it's bring it on. Maybe you could tell us a little bit about the work that you do right now. You've had such an interesting history as well.
Well, first of all, thank you for that tagline. I might have to start using that and just want to say it's an absolute humbling honour to be here with you all. I'm very flattered to share this space with you all. And I do need to first start out by saying that it's all because of Gustavo and his podcast, that I met this group and that we've had this amazing opportunity to come together as entrepreneurs with disabilities and talk about this very important topic. So I was born completely blind and for me, when you have a disability in this world, it's all about figuring out ways to solve problems, to live a wonderful and fulfilling life. And entrepreneurship is also about solving problems. I was born in a fairly small town, but my parents have always just pushed me forward and never had low expectations and really never lowered the bar. I think that's one thing that we need to address today is expectation levels and making sure that expectations are as high as possible with anyone we interact with, whether they're disabled or not. But I think it's something low expectations or something that holds the disability community back maybe a little more often than it should.
Long story short, I went to graduate school and earned a PhD in Organic Chemistry, thinking that I wanted to teach chemistry. And while in graduate school, I truly found entrepreneurship and realised just how happy I could be with building my own business, building my own teams and really stepping outside the box and doing my own thing. With that said, in 2016, when I finished graduate school, I partnered in business with my longtime childhood friend Justin Blandingham and started my food and beverage product consulting company where we do all sorts of product development in food and beverage. From a sensory perspective, I have a very good palate that I've developed over the years and use that in the industry. From a sensory perspective, I also use my chemistry knowledge to do a lot of reformulation to save my clients time and money and create products that are even better than they thought possible. Along those same lines have an experience called tasting in the dark, which is a truly blind wine experience. And I'm one of those weird scientists who likes marketing. So I started sense point design with Justin and another business partner, Jody Tucker, which is a creative and marketing agency.
I think we're the only blind owned creative and marketing agency in the world from what I can tell, but the sky is the limit. I believe in taking things and challenging ourselves to the fullest and living the life that we love and find people to surround yourself with who are complementary of your skills. I'm a sort of crazy, out there networker designer and my partner Justin is a very level headed operations person, so it all works out. That's a little bit about me.
Well, thank you so much. And you kind of breeze through the part about getting the PhD in organic. I know you had talked about how you were inspired by a science teacher, but then she kind of discouraged you from pursuing it. Can you tell us a little bit about that and how you want her over?
Absolutely, yeah. So, like many people, I had a great teacher of chemistry in high school and she was just infectious with her love for the knowledge and appreciation for teaching it and imparting it to other people. And I thought after that class that I wanted to teach chemistry. And she made me look at chemistry as something beyond a prerequisite that I had to get through. When I got to college, she would often tell the class chemistry is amazing. You live it, you breathe it. We eat and drink chemistry every day. Think about it, fall in love with it, embrace it. And I would go to her alone and say, I really do love chemistry. How do you think I should pursue this? Because it's definitely something I'm going to do. And she'd say, oh, chemistry is a visual science. I just don't think it's practical for you to pursue further. I worry about you doing this for your career. And I thought, I love this stuff too much. There's got to be something I can say to turn her mindset to the fact that I should be able to study chemistry as a blind person.
And I thought of it. It was the second semester, the second week of the second semester, and I went to her classroom early in the morning one day before school, when I knew she would be there. And I said, you know, I understand that you think chemistry might be too visual for me to study, but I've got to tell you that nobody can see atoms, and chemistry really is a cerebral science. And that turned around 80 degrees. She became a total ally after that.
That's such a great story because it speaks to the tremendous skills you all have in communication. When you're an entrepreneur, a lot is winning people over, and what a great example of really turning somebody who was worried about you into your biggest supporter. That's a great story. Maybe we could talk a little bit about how you chose the particular businesses you're pursuing now and how much we all have to make a living and have practicalities like the mortgage or the rent and that sort of thing. How did you balance that with what you love? I know you're all doing things that you really love, Kathy, and we can just be kind of free floating, but I'm going to call on you because I know you and I have talked a lot about your desire to help women and your values and how you wanted your business to sync up with the values that you have in life.
You said something as well. But I think it's so critical for parents and people who are influential with disabled people, particularly when they're young, to not let the bar be set too low. And I've got to tell you, my mother was one tough woman and she expected me to achieve things. I was an immigrant. She wanted me to celebrate this country. She wanted me to take advantage of things. And there was never a pity party. And I think that's critical. And the other thing, hobby, that you said was this teacher who you loved, you appeared to adore, she was discouraging you, and you just said, no, this is what I want to do. And you did it. And it was like me when I decided to start my own business, even my mother said, you're crazy. It's not going to work. But I wanted to do it because I knew that I had worked for large corporations and God bless large corporations, they help a lot of the economy. But I wanted to do something, number one, that I enjoy doing, number two, that I could determine and articulate what my values were and only hire people who subscribe to those values.
And if they didn't, then they really couldn't be part of the team. I also felt, and I still do, that women do have a tough time because we are still the nurturers, we're still the caregivers. And I had women working for me who either had young children or had older parents, and it was a tough place to be in, but I gave them an environment in which they could be themselves, celebrate themselves. We could take into consideration any disability or challenges that they may have and not see that as a negative, but instead focus on those things that they did particularly well. So to answer your question directly, I was the primary breadwinner in my household. So therefore I couldn't just say, oh, I'm just going to go here and knit, or something like that. So I purposely chose a business where I knew what I was doing, and that was marketing. I also, and I encourage everybody who wants to be an entrepreneur, you must do this. It's painful, it can be boring. You must write a business plan because otherwise how are you going to know if you're going to be able to put food on the table?
So I did do a business plan and of course, as a marketing person, very optimistic. And then somebody said to me, you better increase those expenses by about 30% because it's not going to happen that way. I chose marketing because I knew marketing. I was frankly good at marketing. I also chose it because I was looking for a business that had a low cost of entry because it's very difficult for small businesses, and particularly women to get funding of any type. And I started my business many years ago. There are alternative ways of getting financing now, but it's still not easy. And I also factored in the fact that I knew a lot of people in that industry, so it would be easy for me to staff and really get out of the gate very quickly. So those were the considerations that I had when I started my business. And it worked for me.
It did, because I felt like your business chose you in a way. Well, he had shared with me a great story of how his parents had really encouraged him to get a higher education, go to law school, in part to be able to pay for any medical costs that might come up over the years. And you went to law school, but I think you said you were allergic to law school.
I was profoundly allergic to law school.
You love movies and audio and video, but you didn't just kind of jump right in without researching it or anything. Tell us a little bit about the process of choosing entrepreneurship after investing so much time in your education.
It's a complex story and complex processes, so we definitely I felt like this business did choose me in the sense that I was always very motivated and inspired by artists, musicians. I had a really good friend growing up who taught me how to listen and appreciate music and some of my most difficult moments, music has gotten me through it, or a movie has changed the story that I tell myself. So I never quite had the courage, ironically, to go into Hollywood and try to become a director or a producer or whatever that a writer. And so I felt like the way I could honour those artists and that form of art was to recreate a beautiful environment in the home where you could appreciate music or art and let it influence and change you the way it changed me. So me and my brother both shared that passion and it made a lot of sense. We did do a lot of research, but the advice that I would give to people that we underestimated in the beginning was, relationships and connections matter so much more than you think they do. So if you're interested in a space or you think you have a solution to a problem.
Go out. Start a meet up group. Join a meetup group. Go out on LinkedIn. Do your research and start to make connections with those communities of people. And you're going to find so many more doors opening up for you and so many more possibilities you may change or shift or pivot into something much better than you ever imagined. I wish that I had done more of that, me and my brother, before we took the leap into the business.
I think you had told me that when you had an opportunity to bid on NFL players home. The theatres. By the way. They're these really elaborate home theatres and these big mansions in Florida. And the builder. I think it was a builder who had introduced you to the opportunity. Held a barbecue to celebrate the deal and how that had been influential and kind of giving his feel of approval to your work and then other work. Could you tell us a little bit about that?
Yeah, so I had met the builder at a networking event about a year prior and had stayed in touch with the builder, and the builder gave us the opportunity to meet with the client and bid on the job. And I think there were, goodness, nine other companies bidding on the job. And we got along really well with the client. We developed the trust right away and it was a process and that experience opened up so many other doors for us afterwards. And, yes, the client had the barbecue after the job was done to celebrate the people who did a great job that he wanted to stay friends with. Like, we still have lunch, we still get together and talk. For us, the client is more like a long term it's a long term relationship. It's an investment in the people, the family, to become almost like a trusted advisor for them. So that relationship building again. It opens up so many possibilities and really creates a virtuous circle for everybody.
Oh, absolutely. And I know Hobie was kind of drafted into one part of his business by Francis Ford Coppola. And I didn't put this in the article, but I was wondering, how does he know about you? He was running the wine tastings at Coppola's Winery about 2 hours from UC Davis where he was getting his PhD. Or maybe you're in grad school at that point.
Yeah, it's interesting. I'll get to that in just a minute. It's a fun story. I actually got brought into my business that I love far before that, but I didn't realise how much it was preparing me for what would become my business future. First of all, I just want to say that what I think I've heard listening to Kathy and Gustavo's sort of reasons why, if you will, is that we're doing what we do because we love it. They do what they do. Cathy started her business because she had a great passion and still probably doesn't have a great passion for marketing and for valuing women in business. Started a business in the film and music industry because he wanted to allow other people to have some of the same experiences, life changing experiences that he's had with those things. And for me, I'll tell you a little bit about how I got started, where I am, but I love it. No day feels like work. And I think I know that if you're going to be a successful entrepreneur, number one, you need to have a plan. And Kathy couldn't be more correct about that.
But number two, and just as important as the plan, you have to love what you're doing. Because if we don't love what we're doing, it feels like work. And entrepreneurship is hard. It's a grind. There are days when we feel like, how am I going to make it work? How am I going to make it work next week, next month? I'm tired and I think that feeling is very common. But if you do something that you really love and it becomes what I call a labour of love, all those dreadful feelings become minimised and you're able to just fly and flourish in what you love. So when I was ten years old, my parents gave me, for Christmas, for my birthday, rather a ten and a half gallon soup pot. And the goal of this soup pot was one of my chores. It was called a chore, but it ended up being one of my favourite things to do was to cook soups and stews for them to freeze and take to work for lunch, so they didn't have to eat out, they didn't like the unhealthy aspect of eating out and they wanted delicious food.
And it was then that I really began playing with different flavour combinations and understanding what went well together. And as I like to say, I'll spare you the details of my nerdiness when it comes to food, but I really like to think of flavour, whether it's in the food or drink world, as a language. And unique flavours caused by unique spices, unique ingredients, whatever they may be, are just vocabulary words in that language. So it was then that I really started speaking that language of flavour and aroma. And I became so in tune when I would smell things in my surroundings and they would remind me of something I cooked or some ingredient that I have in my kitchen or used in my kitchen, and I was able to learn about the world. So being totally blind, colour really doesn't mean much to me. But I was able to develop a richness for the world in terms of aromatics and smell and taste and really use that as my canvas as an artist. So flash forward after making these soups throughout my upbringing, I end up at college and I did all the cooking in college for myself and my roommates, and I actually did all the shopping as well, independently.
We lived fairly close to a supermarket and I did all the shopping and prepared the meals and did the cooking. And everyone was happy about that. I was happy about that because it kept this passion of mine going. And then in 2011, someone who I know and very deeply appreciate, a man by the name of Chris Downey, who's an architect, lost his sight in 2008. I was able to mentor him a little bit in 2009 when we met, after we met at a science camp that we were both mentors at. And Chris had done some architectural work for Mr Coppola and said, Hobby Coppola wants to start doing a truly blindfolded wine tasting at his winery and you might want to meet him. So we made an introduction and when Francis Ford Copeland calls and says, hey, I need you to do this for me, you kind of say, yes, I'll do it, and then hang up and realise what I just agreed to. But that experience was really life changing, building this, what I call tasting in the dark and really being the person in the mind behind it. We created an experience that highlighted wine and did not focus on the fact that people were blindfolded and having them eat complicated dishes.
And it wasn't gimmicky, right? And that's the way I lead these experiences a lot to this day, with all sorts of other ingredients around the world. And it's never about gimmick, it's never about, oh, let's have fun and see what we can taste. Under blindfold. What we do is we just use the temporarily lack of eyesight to show people how they might be able to absorb more from the world around them when they're not distracted. And I do think of eyesight as a distraction when they're not distracted by it. This experience got me really involved in the food and beverage world and as I was finishing up my PhD, I had the honour of teaching several chemistry classes while in graduate school and realised that I had to make my lectures a lot less accessible to me in order to make them accessible to my students who didn't want to speak chemistry. They wanted to see chemistry in terms of videos and little arrows pointing every which way. So I decided that I love flavour, I love this world of sensory, that I speak very well and I know organic chemistry. Now. Why don't I start doing some really exciting product development work from a sensory perspective and a reformulation perspective.
And just got into it. Got into that level of consulting and it was actually on a few projects early out of graduate school where I was coaching various clients of high end creative agencies in some of the experiences that I talked about and had the opportunity to collaborate very. Very closely with several agency partners and realised that I love being creative and I love explaining things in a compelling way and telling stories. And that prompted us to start sending point, which is really exciting for me, a few years in the running with both and I love what I do and that's why it's possible. And I think that's if you hear nothing else from me today, it's that you've got to love what you do because that's what empowers you to take the challenges and take the next step and live life and honestly love life as an entrepreneur.
So much food for thought here. What brought us here today together is our discussion about entrepreneurship and disabilities. And we've touched on this, but I was hoping we could dive into this a little bit more. How did having disabilities influence your career paths? And we talked actually probably more about opportunities and challenges in our pre interviews, but I'm interested in both the opportunities and challenges that they brought to your current businesses. Who wants to go for it?
Yeah, I'll start with that. I find that a really interesting question because I, like all of our panellists, had a disability from a very young age. I was five when I contracted polio and what it did for me was, as somebody who has a disability, you're always trying to figure out how to get around this. How do I negotiate those stairs? How do I wait a minute, the elevator is down at the airport. What am I going to do with all this? So you're always looking for creative solutions to things and although I don't think we're totally aware of it. That's what we do. We do it every day. So therefore I believe, and of course I hate generalities, but most people who have disabilities are pretty creative. They're problem solvers because we don't have any choice. We've got to figure it out, really. I believe for many years was one of those people who said I don't define myself by my disability. I don't define myself that way. I'm more than that. I'm creative, I'm smart, I'm blah blah, blah, blah, blah. And I think one day I woke up and Gustavo, to your point, it wasn't linear.
You're kind of zigzagging and you wake up one day and you say, oh my gosh, you do have a disability. And maybe it's not defining you, but it certainly is a part of you. And I felt that I needed to embrace it more than I did. And I think that was the turning point for me, that and when I worked for large corporations and I frankly don't think this happened because they were mean spirited. I saw how people with disabilities were treated and they were treated differently. And I didn't really like that because I saw such talent. For example, the Department of Labour has a database of disabled people who are if you look at that database, these people are brilliant. I mean, they're brilliant and they should all have jobs. But you know what? Some people are just very uncomfortable with people with disabilities. And that was one of the driving forces for me when I started my own business. I wanted to be in a position where I could hire people if they had a disability or they didn't have a disability, but really hire them for what they did. Well, hire them for their value system.
Frankly, they weren't treated any differently if they didn't do their job. Couldn't be a real problem. So I feel that it's important for those of us who have issues like disabilities and issues is not the right word to really look at it. For example, and I laugh about this a lot, I worked on a brand that was for tired, achy, swollen legs. And somebody said to me, what do you know about running? Well, not very much because I really don't do a lot of running. But what I did was I sponsored the Boston Marathon. So I'm like, it doesn't have to be real running. You can do it in a different way. So I think we have to love what we do. We have to be accepting of people and just really measure them in terms of what they're delivering. I know this sounds very crass, but what are they delivering? And the other thing, hobby that you said, which really has played so much in my life and I hadn't thought about it until you said it, you did somebody a favour who lost his sight and you mentored him. My words, perhaps not yours.
And I can tell you the number of times that I've done a favour for somebody just because they asked me to, that has really transformed much of my life is quite amazing. So it's a long way of saying, accept who you are. You've got to be you. Everybody else is taken and you don't have to suppress it. And I know having done it, that can be a hard thing to do and really look at people for who they are, not as disabled people. Even when I say, well, she's a woman business owner, that still bothers me. She's a successful business owner. But we somehow have to include that description. So I don't know if that answers your question.
Yeah, no, that's a very good answer. You touched on something, Cathy, that I think is important, which is the communication aspect of communicating about a disability, whether you choose to or not to in a business setting. I know Gustavo and I talked a little bit about the podcast and how that helped to open the door to different conversations that deepened his relationships with clients and other stakeholders in the business and in his community. Do you want to talk about that? Like the communication choices you're making and how they evolved over time?
Yeah, absolutely. And Kathy, I love what you said about this authenticity of finding the people who match your values. And they're still diverse. They could be from diverse backgrounds, diverse everything else, but they're bringing that same value system to the work that you're doing together. That's imperative, and it's huge. And I try to do the same thing. I think that sometimes if you look at disability as a lens, sometimes it's very important in your life, and sometimes it's like it's almost not even there. It just depends on context. It depends where you are, what you're doing. So many clients, maybe they think it's impolite to talk about it, they're uncomfortable with it, or it just doesn't matter. You just don't know with people. But what the podcast has really helped me do is to speak about it openly in public. It's a public forum, everybody can listen to it. And so that gave me an extra level of comfort where if I saw an opportunity where maybe somebody wanted to ask a question, you can kind of see it the way they look at you, the way they talk, or the way they kind of may mention something here and there.
They'll throw out little hints. To me, it became an invitation to see, okay, let me meet this person where they're at, and see how I can help them maybe shift the narrative around what they're thinking a little bit. So a lot of our clients are very successful entrepreneurs. They like to hear the story of, I didn't let my disability stop me from doing the things that I wanted to do. Sometimes that message is very inappropriate, depending upon who you're talking to. But if you're meeting people where they are, you have the ability to move them into another direction and into other narratives and stories around disability that helps.
And hobby. You've talked a lot about a concept that came up pretty much in everybody's comments, which is the idea of the problem solving skills that people with disabilities have because of the challenges of sometimes navigating a flight of stairs or other barriers. And it almost seemed like a selling point in terms of why should they hire you as a consultant and a different way of thinking about things. Can you talk a little bit about that, how it makes you think?
Absolutely.
How you communicate that?
No, absolutely. I would love to share some thoughts on that. But first I really want to hearken back to the question of how has disability in business as entrepreneurs put challenges up and put barriers up, and what opportunities has it given you? Is it afforded you? I think the problem solving is an opportunity, but I want to start with the challenges. As Cathy said, there's so often times where we see people with disabilities with extreme talents be either not given jobs or put into a job that doesn't take full advantage of their talent, because people are worried about how am I going to interact with this person with a disability? What are the HR issues with hiring someone with a disability? What sort of accommodations are they going to request? And is this really going to be a good relationship for us or just a hassle? So one of the challenges is that we in order to and I think this is a great leads to opportunity. But in order to be considered for jobs or as entrepreneurs. Where we're doing our own job in order to be considered useful and the one that gets the bid and the one that gets higher is we have to work harder than our non disabled peers.
And we honestly have to be better than them. And when I say better, it could sound controversial, but we have to be more capable than them of performing whatever job it is that we're taking. Because this world that we live in, whether we like it or not, is a world where we're all in a capitalistic society on an equal playing field. And in order to get to work and get our pieces apply, especially as we need to pay rent and keep food on our tables, we need to be better at a lot of what we do than other people. So that's a challenge there. And I don't usually talk about this, but I feel like this is a forum that warrants it. As I was finishing up with graduate school, I was applying for a lot of jobs. I applied for I shouldn't say a lot, a handful of jobs that I would have been interested in taking, working for some large food companies in the world. And my premise there was really that I loved marketing and I was a scientist and I had a really good palette that I developed over the past a couple of decades.
And I would be excellent at really working with RN and D teams and then taking what we do in R, amp D and translating it to sales and marketing teams. And everyone said that I was either qualified or overqualified, but I didn't get any of those jobs and not an HR person. One of the people at one of the companies confided in me and said, I got to tell you, you're overqualified. But Hrs terrified of hiring a blind person and what that's going to cause for the company. And when I heard that, I knew that I wanted to be an entrepreneur and my attitude was, hey, if I can't sit at the table, I'm going to build my own table. And that's just what we need to do as entrepreneurs. And I also realised very quickly that problem solving and this is getting back to Elaine's more specific question problem solving is something that we do all the time as people with disabilities, whether we like it or not. How am I going to make this document accessible to me? How am I going to find my way from where I'm sitting now in an airbnb in Chicago following the conference I was just at to the airport?
How am I going to make these things happen? And it's just a little bit it's not hard, but it takes some problem solving, that takes some forethought. And my point here is that we're always solving sometimes really little problems, but there are problems nonetheless as folks with disabilities, if we want to be successful and what are we doing in business, we're identifying a problem. So Cathy identified a problem really well. A lot of people aren't that good at marketing. She is good at marketing and she offered those services to her clients and they became more successful. So she was solving a problem. In the food industry, I use my palate, I use my skills that other people do not have, right? And I am able to solve problems that no one else is able to solve. The cases when I get involved, the product development cases are very challenging. And I just love that because I'm literally able to observe things. I do use the word see things in a light that other people don't see them. Gustavo is solving a problem. If you look at people who are building homes or remodelling a home, if you like music, you want to listen to it on a good sound system.
You want to have a really good set of equipment, professionally, beautifully, professionally installed in order to do that. They don't know how to do that, but Gustavo certainly does and solves that problem for them. Those are a few examples just from amongst our group. But really, any business is designed to solve a problem and if you don't solve a problem, you shouldn't be in business. That's the bottom line. So I feel like I'm able to take my way of thinking about problems and solution and bring that same process that I've used, I think fairly successfully for my whole life, for my survival as a blind guy and really pulled it into business. The other thing that I think all of us share on this call is that we take something that people would consider a disadvantage, a disability, and we figured out how to turn them into game changing advantages in our careers. And as an example, I said, Wait a minute, I know food and flavour better than most people because it's a language that I speak and I'm not distracted by my eyesight. Let me offer those skills which I have in my toolbox to people who maybe don't have those.
And this is true for anyone who's able bodied or whatever. This is true for any entrepreneur or anyone just in life. If you can look at your life and think about things in your traits, about you, you might think of as disadvantages and then use those to springboard your mind with an abundance mindset into advantages that are going to get you to the next level.
I was about to ask you about the mindset because so much of life is how we frame things and every time I've spoken to you I feel like I've revised the way of viewing a challenge. It seems like you have a very unique way of framing things in your mind and each of you does. Is that something that comes naturally or is this something that you actively work at?
For me, I just love challenges. I love seeing something and it's not a competitive thing. I'm not like a I don't like, you know, winning. It's not I don't mean to win, OK. But I like challenging myself. I guess I did compete against myself and saying, what can you do? Really? Is this possible? And I just think that so many things that people say, oh no, I can't do that, I'm not a tile installer. Can't I make my shower look good? Well, if you tried it, you might be really impressed with what you can do. And that was just a silly example that popped into my head. I don't know why I'm talking about installing tile, but it's just the example that came to me. Believe in yourself and have an open mindset. And that harkens back to our conversation about expectations. Never lower the bar for anyone around you or for yourself and I think you'll be pretty impressed with what you can do.
No, go ahead, Cathy.
I'd like to just, if I may add pretty quickly two things to what Hoby said. First of all, I love to solve problems and sometimes I think I'm just a really nosy person. So I think if I can figure it out, I just get such joy out of solving problems. But I wanted to share a story with all of you and it just came to mind. As Hobie was talking.
I got a.
Call one day from somebody and they said, oh, wow, we've heard about you and we would love to interview you. And I met you the other day. I don't think you remember me, but will you come in an interview with me for my company. So I got there at 07:00 in the morning, they didn't offer me a glass of water, and at 430 was the last interview. By this time, I am hungry and tired. So I went in and this young woman closed the door and she said to me, what are you doing here? And I'm like, interviewing for a job. And she said, do you really think that I'm not going to mention who the CEO is, would hire a disabled woman of childbearing age woman? And I still to this day, when I think about it, I'm so shocked. And I think she really did think she was doing me a favour, which I think she probably was, but I wish that had happened at 08:00 in the morning rather than 04:30 in the afternoon. So my point is, these people were pursuing me and I was then told that they would never hire anybody who was me.
So it can be tough, but I believe that my trick is in marketing, we call it Winking at the brand. And that means it's just really kind of cool and we've got to be kind of cool, or at least I do. I just love what I do. I love solving problems for clients. I'm good at it. I love hiring people that I can give them balance in life, but I can still give them a stimulating work environment. So I think, again, it gets back to who we are and what really excites us and back to as we were talking about, it's very tiring being an entrepreneur. And I used to joke, I can pick, whatever, 22 hours in the day I want to work. It's very flexible, but it's tiring. I don't know about the guys on the panel, but women tend to personalise it. I didn't get hired because I didn't have the right lipstick out. I mean, all this silliness, but when you're tired, everything becomes more difficult. You've got to believe in yourself. And all those naysayers, those people who told me I couldn't do job sharing, I couldn't be successful in a business, I just put my blinders on because I wanted to be.
I knew I could do it, so go for it and do it.
That's great advice. And what kind of interests me is you've each in your own way, talked about having to build your own table and yet you're collaborating with others constantly. And that's kind of a high wire act in business. And I guess it's true for every entrepreneur seems to have a reason to build their own table, right? It might not be a disability, it might be something entirely different, but you can't exist in a vacuum. Even though I write about one person businesses, what always amazes me is how many people are involved in those one person businesses, right? A thousand sometimes. So there's a lot of nuance and sophistication to what you're doing day to day, which might be why it's so tiring. I wonder if you've given some great advice to people who are thinking of starting a business while living with disabilities. But we didn't really dive into that fully. And I don't know, maybe gustavo, do you want to start with that one? What would you tell someone who is listening to this and thinking, despite all the obstacles, I still want to do this? What could I do to be successful at it?
I love what Holy and Kathy have been saying and I'm going to go back to the theme of choosing yourself. I was always very motivated, even as a young child when somebody challenged me and said, you can't do this. You can't beat me at this video game, you can't do this thing. It was really motivational because I wanted to I guess part of it was I had that belief in fighting myself and that developed over time where I said, I want to participate in this world. I can contribute, I can do something. As that evolved, I was able to see the potential in other people because so many of us, whether we have a disability or not, are not given opportunities. Life is hard, right? Whether it's intentional or not, it just is. And if you're able to find those hidden gems, those people, and give them a chance and meet them where they're at, it's amazing what they can do. That's why. So if you are going to start a business, my advice for you is work on your awareness, work on your self belief, work on your why? Why do you want to do this?
And then shift to what problems am I solving? And then start reaching out to the people in those communities to figure out if the problem is if you really have the right problem or if you need to adapt it. Once those relationships and those conversations start, maybe you find your business partner, maybe you find your mentor, maybe you find people who are going to help you on that journey and accelerate it. There's no one path. There's no one. Here's the keys to the puzzle. And if we all do this, we're all going to get there. It's a shifting landscape and you have to be able to keep adapting. But I think the more people that you come into contact with and develop relationships with, the easier that path becomes.
No, I might just tag onto that. Gustavo this is hobby, by the way. Yeah, I think that what I would tell any employer about hiring people with disabilities is number one, make sure they're right for the job. Really important to me not to hire people just because they have a disability and we want someone disabled in their old. That's a really bad reason to bring on someone with a disability. They've got to be first and foremost, like, I think of myself as a hard working entrepreneur who happens to be blind. And I like to think of myself as a lot more than my blindness, right? So I think it's really important, I know it's really important that we first and foremost make sure the person is right for the job. And my thought about bringing people to the workplace that have disabilities is a lot is just a corollary to what I've been saying for my entire career thus far about diversity and inclusion, but in particular here, diversity. I feel like if we bring a diverse group of people to the table, problems are going to get solved and back to this problem solving trend here with more eclectic and more well thought out, or more thoroughly thought out, maybe I should say solutions.
So it's going to be that much easier to solve a problem when you have different opinions. Maybe someone with a couple of people with different disabilities and different ways of focusing on the world and understanding the world. Maybe someone from a different socioeconomic background than others. But I'll tell you, if you have a room of a dozen able bodied, white, middle aged males solving a problem, you're going to get a very one dimensional solution compared if you bring on a diverse workforce. And I really think that diversity in business increases the bottom line and increases the opportunity of that business to really excel and move forward and on the line of a network and connections. Costavo said some really beautiful things about the power of a big network and the power of knowing who to connect to whom, when. And I would say that I offer my clients a lot of business expertise, but probably the thing I offer my clients the most, which really helps them the most, is when I thoughtfully connect them to the right people. I have a knack for knowing when two people from my network who might be very different need to know each other.
It's just so much fun for me. I get so much joy out of watching connections I make flourish and seeing people just excel. And when you introduce two people, if the connection goes well, it can happen where they become just this amazing force of nature that when you put them together and their minds together, they're so much more powerful than working as individuals. And it tickles me to make connections and see them flourish.
This is really great advice. I'm mindful that we're at the hour and we have some time for Q and and A. One of the things I love about Helena Escalante is she always gathers the audience questions ahead of time. Thank you, Helena. There's some really good ones here and these are in the area of advice to people that want to start businesses. I don't know if these are areas that you can address, but I'll just throw them out there and maybe somebody will have some thoughts on these. One person asked if we could please speak on mental disability. Another asked about chronic anxiety and being worried about putting themselves out there full time. I know, Kathy, you did a job share, but the issue of social anxiety, mental disabilities, we didn't really touch on that. And maybe in the disability community, you've spoken with folks that have given you insights. Anyone want to tackle that?
I mean, I have spoken to people who have had some of those. They're dealing with those constraints and I think it's important as a business owner to create a safe space for your team where they feel like they can be very open about what they're going through and about what's happening in their lives and what they need to flourish and succeed. If you can't have that open conversation with people, I think you're doing it wrong. You're missing out on so much opportunity. So for me, I really try to focus in on our work environment is a very safe space and if you're a talented human being and we want to work together, let's figure that out. I don't have all the answers. I don't know what everybody is going through, but let's figure it out together and see what works for you. If it's working virtually on a project, let's do that. Let's be flexible, let's problem solve together and work on the solution. But don't let don't tell yourself the story that because you have something, you can't do it or because you have something, you have to stop at the problem. Keep going.
Find the people who are willing to open up those doors for you and make it work together. It's possible.
One of the things that I would add to that, Gustavo, is have a support system. None of us, we would be absolutely lying if we said that we've been able to do this completely autonomously with no support system. And that's not just people with disabilities, right? That's everybody. I have surrounded myself with people I trust, I love, and I respect, and who will always support me and I'll support them right back just as much in return. But it's so wonderful to build that support network. That group of people around you who can help you succeed and who can not only act as motivators. But be that shoulder you can cry on. Be that person you can come home or that group of people you can come home and talk to after a really hard day and who are just going to never stop believing in you. That's the support I'm talking. About. And I think with anxiety and I'm human myself and I go through patches of depression for sure. And I'm just going to say that I think that when we feel like it's hard to get up and do what we need to do, we just have to remember it's always worked out.
You've been alive this long, putting 1ft in front of the other. Let's just keep at it. It's that keep on trucking sort of motto that I think is so important with running your own business and just doing life in general, whether you have a disability or not.
Yeah, and I'm going to take a little bit of a different approach. I do absolutely believe one has to have a support system, but one also has to be willing to talk about it, to share it. And some people are so embarrassed by these things that they don't want to talk about it. So I think anybody whose experiences those types of things has to take responsibility has to not be embarrassed or ashamed that they're experiencing whatever that is. And I also think sometimes we got to give ourselves a break and maybe say, all right, you know what? For five minutes I am going to have a major pity party. I'm just going to really feel badly about myself and awful. And then you put the timer on and when the five minute timer, you're done. And then you pick up the phone or text, whatever way you communicate to those support people and just share with them how you're feeling.
Kathy, you worked out arrangements where you were working in a job share. And there's a few questions on the spreadsheet from people who have conditions that might flare up, like autoimmune disease, where they need to communicate with an employer and if they had Gustavo as an employer, they wouldn't have to worry about it. But hobby and you have both shared situations where the employer was not sensitive and you would never feel comfortable in that environment really having the conversation. I wondered what is a successful approach look like in your experience when you're bringing it up to an employer that you do have a condition that might require some accommodations in a way that works for you as a person, telling what you want to tell and that also results in what you want, which is getting the work or getting the job. It's again a very delicate and sophisticated balancing act, but I think that might be helpful for some of the people in the audience to hear. What does that sound like?
I have a very specific approach to this. I'll just quickly share. The relationship has to work the relationship, really. It's like dating, if you think about it. There are some times when you might sit down with someone that you're thinking about dating and you're like, yeah, it may not be the right fit and we need to do that as people with disabilities or as anyone seeking jobs, we have to make sure our employer is a good fit for us. And the other thing that I live by, my biggest motto in work and everything I do is don't litigate. There are plenty of people out there who might seem like they're being short or like they just don't know what. How do I deal with it? This person tells me they've got challenges that might flare up. What am I going to do about it? And if we have the heart of a teacher, we come in and we say, this is what I'm talking about. This is what might happen. And I know there are things that I don't know about you, but we're going to learn about each other and we're going to find a balance that works.
And that's how I convinced a chemistry department at a university when this blind guy comes and says, hey, I want to study chemistry and do experimental chemistry in the lab, they say, what? How does that come on come again? And we just have to slowly and calmly explain to them what we mean by that. And the relationship has to work, by the way. So that's why I said that first, because I knew when I started at UC Davis that the relationship would work, that they were openminded enough to make it happen. And then once the relationship can work, we have to nurture it along by teaching and and nurturing and not by saying, this is what I need and this is how you're going to do it, because that's not approachable.
I'm going to add to that. I think often so many of us want the job. We just want that job for whatever reason. And I go back to that situation where I was asked to come in and interview. I mean, they wanted me. And then all of a sudden and frankly, the employer never said that was one of the employees. But I think we always have to ask ourselves the question, just like, if we're dating or in a relationship, is this really something I want to get into? Because if you've got a boss and it doesn't have to be just about disabilities. It can be about being a mother, having children, being a single father. And their values, it gets back to the values are not the same as yours, then I don't really think you can have the conversation. But when you find and I think most of us are pretty intuitive, we know or at least we're pretty sure, then it is appropriate. And I believe it should be full disclosure. And I think nobody should get into a relationship and not be authentic about it. You get there, you get the job, they give you a huge signing bonus.
I'm making all this up, obviously. And then you say, oh, you know, by the way, I have a couple of things that I'm dealing with just not the way to start a relationship. So I think being authentic can I.
Just jump in real quick?
Sure.
I would love to encourage existing entrepreneurs and business owners to be less rigid. We all know the importance of structure, of productivity and efficiency, all these things, but we're not machines. At least I don't believe human beings are machines. If we're looking for somebody to cheque off, if their work involves checking off a list, something that can be automated, I think there's something better for a human being to be able to do. And I would encourage people to say, look, let's think of the work more flexibly, there's deadlines, there's things that need to be met, but can the project be done with more flexible hours? And what value is this person really bringing to the table, to the organisation that nobody else is? Because maybe they see things differently, they think about the world differently, they have a unique perspective. Don't undervalue those things and give up on that person because it doesn't fit a rigid box that you want to put everybody into. You're missing out on so many opportunities by doing that bestabo.
I'm just going to add to that, if I may. When I did job sharing, people said, oh, you know, they must be lazy people. I got to tell you, they were two and a half days a week. Their job share partner came in work two and a half days a week. They never really left the job. They were so committed, they were so thankful to have the flexibility, they were so thankful to commit at this time with blue jeans on, when nobody did that. And so therefore, I think your point about being rigid is well taken. People, when they are well taken care of, respected and recognised, will go beyond. And I think a lot of people just don't realise that, a lot of employers.
And it goes back to something we talked about just earlier in the conversation, which is that I think you'll be totally surprised, 90 plus percent of the time, the dividends that giving people a chance pay off. If they're good people, if they're not going to work hard and they're just going to be lackadaisical, it's different. But if someone is a good, dedicated person, doing a good deed for them, like my friend who introduced me to Francis Ford Coppola after I helped him a little bit, these are the things that pay off in spades when we give people a chance.
I would imagine in the current labour market, employers are taking more creative solutions. But are you finding that or no, it hasn't not changed at all.
I'm not finding it.
There's an opportunity, right? Like, for somebody to help them tap into all the people that are starting their own businesses, because it's so frustrating. There's a question that just came in. Did any of you have any disabled persons as role models? That's an interesting question.
I've had both disabled and non disabled role models, for sure. One of the most important things for me is choosing our mentors and having a good base of mentors. And I've had all sorts of mentors throughout my life, but I just this value, this ability of people to see what the future for us before we see it for ourselves is such a huge opportunity. And if you aren't yet a mentor, I encourage you to become a mentor to someone, find someone to take under your wing because it feels so good. And none of us are too old or too wise to have mentors. And those are the role models. And yes, I've had plenty of disabled and non disabled role models.
I'm going to also add to the mentorship the thing about being a mentor, it's so amazingly fulfilling. However, it's amazing how much I learned being a mentor for my mentee. And so it truly is a two way street, and I think it's a wonderful thing to do.
One other question that came up in the spreadsheet was invisible disabilities. There are a lot of disabilities that aren't evident to other people, but might require some accommodations or just be something an employer would need to know about you. Maybe it has to do with the hours that you need to work or whatever it is. Any thoughts on how to bring it up or when not to? Because we talked in our first conversation about how in some situations the disability is a factor and in others it really isn't. It's kind of in the background, and so people don't want to be defined by any one thing in their personality or their body or anything else. So how do you find the perfect way to do this? If there is a perfect way, something right. I see Kathy smiling. She's like, no perfect way.
And it's repetitive. It gets back to that relationship. There is no way that group that had asked to interview me would ever have been accepting. I mean, it just wasn't in their DNA. And although my disability is obvious, I can't even imagine somebody who had sort of one that's not a disability, that's not obvious, having that conversation in an environment like that. But if they want to hold the argusavo, then, you know what? It would be like a really easy conversation to have. And I think Gustavo used this term earlier. It's not a plug and play. Now. One thing works for everybody. I think you have to be intuitive about the people that you're talking with.
I agree with that. And invisible disabilities. So the people that I've spoken to on the podcast who have had invisible disabilities usually say, again, it comes down to a personal decision of do I trust this employer to tell them or not? So there's not really a clear answer there. It's what Kathy said. It's partially intuitive, knowing where you work, knowing the people that you work with, and do you feel open and comfortable enough to talk about that? Obviously, I encourage that. Kathy does, Hobie does. There's other companies that do, too. A great strategy, I think, is to go on LinkedIn, find the people who work for those companies that you're interested in, reach out to them, just ask for advice. Can I get five minutes of your time? I'm interested in working here or in this industry. What's your experience been with this? How comfortable are they? How open are they? What's the culture really like? I think most people would be willing to give you honest advice about that.
I think that's true. Costabo I really like what you had to say there. I also think that if you're going to be establishing a work relationship, I love the fact that my disability is visible because it makes it very easy if I walk in. And I know a lot of partially sighted people, actually, who choose not to use their white cane or a dog guide, and then that's fine. You can look sighted until you start running into stuff, and then you don't look blind, you just look silly. Right. And we don't want that. And I think the same thing goes with even intellectual disabilities, is that if it's going to affect our ability maybe to carry out whatever it is we're doing professionally, I think it's good that people know so that it doesn't look like, gosh, this person is just incompetent. So that there's a level of understanding. There is really an important thing to bring together, and it's good. Ideally, I know this isn't the case in every situation, but in a perfect world, you will forge a bond with your if it's a good employer, you'll forge a bond with them where you feel okay about sharing that stuff.
We're getting to our last two minutes, so if anyone has a last minute question, now is the time to shoot it in. I have so appreciated this discussion because you've all been so candid, and I feel like people will come away from this with actionable, things that they can do in their own career and great strategies for navigating a world that's very complex. The working world is changing very fast right now, and having disabilities makes it even more complex at times. And you've really given great advice and each brought your own unique spin to this whole topic. Do you want to say a couple of parting words before we sign off?
I would, because I always have something to say. I just want to encourage everybody to really embrace who they are and celebrate who they are. And if you have a dream, go for it, because you know what? It's just you're not going to get to second with your foot on first.
I think I speak for the group, but I'll speak for myself here and say, have a good work ethic, but believe in yourself. It's the most important thing. And have an open and abundance mindset. And by all means, reach out to me anytime I can be of assistance. Reach out on LinkedIn, reached out on my website, hobbywedler.com. Don't be a stranger. And if there's any way that I can help you get in touch with me, please. Thank you so much to Helena Escalante for putting this together and to Elaine Papel for moderating the panel. And I also want to just say a personal thanks to Gustavo for bringing me these wonderful connections to all these fine folks, because if it weren't for being on his podcast, I wouldn't be here right now. So thank you.
I'll just immense gratitude to everybody on this panel. I love you all, you're all fantastic human beings looking forward to what we all do next. But my parting thought, the stories you tell yourself shape your realities and the possibilities and the limitations that you may think you have. Don't give the gatekeepers or other people or the problems more power than they already have by believing in something that's not true. Empower yourself. Find a better story. Find another way. Don't stop at the problem.
Helena, you're going to have the recording somewhere, right? I want to write all this down.
Absolutely. I have been myself writing down all these gold nuggets. This has been fantastic, elaine, thank you so much to bee Gustavo, Kathleen, you have been so fantastic. I wish we could just continue the rest of the afternoon and probably into tomorrow having this conversation. This has been absolutely fantastic. But unfortunately, our time has come to an end. We will definitely have to do an encore of this because just look at all the comments in the chat. Everybody is loving this and throughout we've been getting wonderful comments as well. So everyone will have a recording of this. But one more thing that I just want to say a couple of notes, let's say practical notes that I took as to how the library can help you become an entrepreneur or grow your business if you already have one. If you don't have a business plan, please sign up. Our wonderful business librarians can help you with tonnes of resources. And the library has a business plan competition that happens on a yearly basis. We're wrapping up this year, but the next one will start in the fall. But in the meantime, don't wait. You can definitely get started.
And we have also great programming week after week that we put together to keep that entrepreneurial mind going. And because as you learned today, mindset is so incredibly important, I want to invite you to please come next Monday. I'm going to ask my team to please drop the link in the chat because we have a fantastic programme with a mindset and leadership coach. He is one of the best. His name is Mike Goldman and he is fantastic. And he's going to teach you how to focus, how to reframe your mind to achieve that business entrepreneurial and personal success that you want. Also, if you are looking for business mentors, the library has a list of different groups that can provide business advice. So I'm going to ask the team also to drop the link in the chat for a consultation with our business librarians, who can then help you and point you to the appropriate group. If you are in Think Tech or if you are in something else or Ed Tech or if you are whatever it is that you want, I'm sure that there is a group that can help you. And our advisors, our librarians, excuse me, can definitely point you to those advisors.
So having said that, the last thing that I have to ask you is to please take two minutes of your time and give us feedback. The link will be on the chat. It's a form that takes seriously no more than two minutes. But we really care about your feedback. And lastly, with all my heart, thank you to every single one of you who stayed with us until now and to every single one in here who made this possible. So thank you. Thank you again and have a wonderful rest of your day. Thank you, Elaine. Thank you, Hobby. Thank you, Sabo. Thank you, Cathy. Have a wonderful afternoon. And thank you everyone. Thank you to my team as well, very much as always.
Bye.
Have a great one.
Thank you.
Helpful Link:
BIZABILITY SERIES: How Creatives, Entrepreneurs, and Non-profits Are Changing the Way We Understand Human Potential: https://www.nypl.org/bizability