Johnathan Lee Iverson
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Johnathan Lee Iverson began his career circling the globe and crisscrossing the United States, as a member of The Boys Choir of Harlem, gracing the world’s most renowned stages, including the Broadway stage under the direction of the legendary Geoffrey Holder in “The Boys Choir of Harlem & Friends” at the Richard Rogers Theater. In addition to performing before world leaders and dignitaries, including United States Presidents, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton, Ronald Reagan, and Jimmy Carter, as well as, Noble Peace Prize winner, Nelson Mandela, Iverson has shared the stage with such artist as Lou Rawls, Ray Charles, Stevie Wonder, Plácido Domingo, Luciano Pavarotti, Betty Buckley, Pete Seeger, Zubin Mehta, Perry Cuomo, Kathleen Battle, Shirley Verett, Tony Bennett, James DePriest and Lena Horne, all before the age of eighteen.
A proud graduate of Fiorello H. LaGuardia High School of Music and Art & Performing Arts and The Hartt School of the University of Hartford, Iverson took his first steps into the pages of history at only 22 years old, when he became the youngest, the first New Yorker, and the first African American Ringmaster in the near 150 year history of Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey.[1] Iverson’s presence at The Greatest Show On Earth set box office records for Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey throughout the United States. Audiences and critics alike were immediately smitten by the native New Yorker. Ebony magazine said of him: “The instant he appears out of the darkness and into the spotlight…the audience is rapt.” The San Francisco Examiner stated: “Now imagine mesmerizing the crowd with a powerful voice and the bearing of a superstar.” The Times-Picayune wrote: “Tall and self assured…he works a crowd like a three ring evangelist.” And syndicated columnist Liz Smith gushed: “I…liked six foot [five] youngest ringmaster ever, Johnathan Lee Iverson, who is commanding enough to be noticed in the melee, and he can sing.”
During his legendary tenure with Ringling Bros. and Barnum & Bailey, Iverson was one of the busiest live entertainers in the world, performing an estimated 450 shows annually in arenas around the United States and Mexico. As the voice of The Greatest Show On Earth, Johnathan has been seen and heard via numerous media outlets including, print, broadcast and the world wide web. He is also a featured blogger for the Huffington Post, among other publications. His many accolades include being selected as one of Barbara Walters’ 10 Most Fascinating People. Iverson’s historical tenure with The Greatest Show On Earth is featured in numerous publications, including, “Black First: 4, 000 Ground-Breaking and Pioneering Historical Events” by Jessie Carney Smith,”African-American First” by Joan Potter, “Live Life! Be Young, Black, and Successful” by Quincy Benton, “Beat of a Different Drum: The Untold Stories of African-Americans Forging Their Own Paths in Work and Life” by Dax-Devlon Ross and “Beyond the Statistics” by Zane Massey.
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Hi, everyone. We are thrilled to have Jonathan Lee Iverson today as our guest. Jonathan is a world class performer and singer. He started out with the Boys Choir of Harlem, where he has performed for presidents and famous people all over the country. He shared the stage with people like Lou RALS, Ray Charles, Plasido Domingo, basically a who's who of performers. Jonathan was also the youngest ring master for Ringling Brothers, Barnum and Bailey Circus, and we are just so excited to have him here and have a really interesting conversation.
His current project right now is with the Omnium Circus, which is the first circus to feature as a fundamental part of their show performers with a disability. Jonathan, thank you so much for being on the show. It's a pleasure to meet you for the first time.
Thank you for having me. I really appreciate being here.
Absolutely. It's an honor I wanted to dive in first and talk about some of your background, some of your experiences as a performer. Can you tell us early on what drew you into music to start out with before you even started with the Boys Choir of Harlem, was there anything in early childhood that you realized I want to perform or music is something that I have a calling for or a passion for? When did you realize you wanted to engage with music?
My Fourier into music really started with my desire to want to travel the world. I grew up in the bedrock of New York City, up West Side Manhattan, and growing up in that kind of environment where it was highly diverse, economically, socially, racially, ethnically, culturally. It just started curiosity. I was just exposed to a lot, and I just had an itch for traveling, and I had no means to do it. And really, it just was based on that. And I happened to the boy Square of Harlem, and I'd always sang at Church, but I didn't think anything of it.
It's just what you did. I didn't think anything special or I wasn't particularly moved by anything. I mean, there were people I enjoyed hearing. Singh, my godfather, and my late Godmother, who I enjoyed hearing them sing quite often. But aside from that, it wasn't something that I think I was initially instinctually drawn to until I ventured into the Boys Choir of Harlem. And when I entered that group, that's when things open up that part of my consciousness to music and what it meant to me. And I didn't get serious about it, really, until I guess we were auditioning for a trip to Japan, and I worked so hard, and I managed to end up on that tour.
And that was just life changing for me in so many ways. And it was on that tour that I had this beautiful encounter with the great plus Domingo, and I've never met him personally. But it was the first time I had ever heard of him, ever saw him. And it was in performance, and he was introduced. It was at a wonderful gala. We were a part of for Ben Ronald and Nancy Reagan in Tokyo, Japan. And he was there and he sang, and it completely blew me away.
I didn't know the human voice could do that. And that's when I became aware that I had a leaning towards that.
Okay. So that's when the awareness first started, just out of curiosity, what was Japan like, how old were you when you went to Japan?
I was 13 years old when I went to Japan, and it was beautiful. I thought it was the greatest thing ever. Was the first country outside of the United States that I visited during my career with the Boys Choir of Harlem. And I fell in love with it. I fell in love with people. I fell in love with, just their manner and how they treated you and everything. It was so welcoming. And Japan is renowned for that being a very cordial and welcoming society. And I felt really, I guess I could say I felt whole when I was over there.
It felt wonderful. You feel like a star over there. But it was just wonderful. It was everything I fantasized about as a child, about meeting different types of people. And they meeting me. And so it was just a wondrous thing. My teen years were absolutely amazing.
And I'm sure with all the traveling and obviously you're performing at this huge gala, that must have been had you performed enough where you were already comfortable with it, or was it just excitement, or were you still at the point of just being really nervous for such a big occasion?
I wasn't nervous at that occasion. We rehearsed someone. We worked so hard to the point where it was just second nature for us. It was a really rigorous institution. It was one of those where you sink a swim. And the mighty founder and director of it, the late great doctor Walter J. Turmble would say that he had a quip. He used to say that only the pure in tone will survive. He was hard, man. He'd make a great TV movie. But in this day and age, man, they probably arrested, man.
He was hard. He was tough. But he was brilliant. And quite frankly, he gave us a song of hope. He gave us a really wonderful song of hope in the midst of what New York City was during that time, the backdrop of the HIV AIDS crisis, the backdrop of the government endorsed crack cocaine crisis in black neighborhoods. You had wonderful. I call them Harlem Angels like himself in the Lake. Great Mother Hale, who actually took in babies who were infirmed with drug addiction from birth. And she housed them and cared for them.
We have people like that that you don't hear about on the news very often or who aren't? They don't have statues, but they were the pillars of communities and society, in my opinion. And they were the ones who, without a doubt, saved many lives, saved a lot of the youth during that time. And Dr. Walter G termbell was among those who did that. And it was to my benefit that I had the privilege of being in that particular organization and really learning what it felt like to fail into one something and to work hard, to fail again and to work hard and work doggedly in transition to success and know that I earned it because everything was earned there.
There was no nepotism. You had to earn your spot. And I really earned that spot. And I was proud of myself. And I can tell you when I started performing and traveling at 13 with the boys cry of Parliament, it didn't stop until I graduated at 18 from high school. And it was just a beautiful time in my life.
Yeah. I think there's an interesting parallel, too. So I was born with multiple physical disabilities, and there was always a sense that I was fortunate enough. My parents later on in life did very well financially. So I was blessed with a lot of opportunities that other people don't have. But I had that sense of nobody is going to give it to you in order for you to be in that room in order for you to get what you want, you're going to need to work for it probably more than other people, and it's not going to be handed to you, and you're not going to have special privileges.
It's just the way life is.
Yeah.
And it's interesting because part of me thinks, Well, it doesn't have to be that way. And we're trying to make the world better, but at the same time, it made me stronger, and it sounds like it made you stronger and more resilient as well.
Yeah. I think it has to be that way. I think it's the only way. The problem is we don't respect the dynamics of the fact that there are actually, yes, there are evil people at work who are working to marginalize others, and those are real serious factors that cannot be denied and cannot be dismissed because they do have an effect even on people's best efforts. We're talking about it every day now in the press. You hear about it, about all of these black families who are now being recognized because, yes, they had land stolen from them.
And we all know that land is the bedrock of wealth. Everybody knows that. And so we're seeing that. And we're seeing the legacy of that. And we're seeing the legacy of pushing people into what we call ghettos and urban communities on top of each other where you don't own anything. You're just a renter for the rest of your life. You don't have resources. So the reality is that in an actual fair and equitable world, the JayZ of the world wouldn't be rare. They wouldn't be geniuses.
They would just be rather common. So you can imagine if people like him and $0.50 are ascending from what they legitimately ascended from because most rappers are liars. They don't grow up like that, but they legitimately did. And to ascend from that. Imagine if they did have those chances. And look, life comes with all sorts of challenges. But the good book do say money answer is all things wealth, and it gives you a certain leg up. And even with your efforts, it gives you a certain leg up.
Now, I think it is very vital for all of us. I think it's very important for parents to really put their children in those positions where they have to make adjustments. They have to deal with failure. They have to deal with daily working nonstop for something. I think about my time with the boys Carb, Harlem. I wanted to quit every other day, and my parents just wouldn't let me do it. My mother was like, she just weaponized. No. All the time, I wanted to quit every other day.
It was hard. It was agonizing. It was disappointing. I thought I'd never do anything. I was there for 18 months, and for an eleven year old, that's like an eternity torment. It felt like these people, they have it out for me. And I thank God. Now I look back now and I'm so happy that, wow. I'm just very fortunate that they didn't accommodate my fears. And I think too many times I think unfortunately, you do have some of us who just accommodate children's angst and fears, and we let them give up when they should just be going through.
You have to learn to stand up to that. You have to learn the biggest bully you're going to face in your life is yourself. That's the biggest bully you'll ever face in your life is yourself and overcoming yourself constantly. It's a truly valiant thing.
I couldn't agree more when you were at the choir and you felt like giving up every day. Was it something that obviously they were pushing everybody intentionally to get better, to improve, to try to work. But would they refuse to give up on somebody like, for example, if they didn't have as much talent, if they were still willing to put in the work? Like, what was the reward system? What was the benefit of sticking with it if you yeah.
Well, the thing was the goal, ideally, was to create good citizens, not necessarily sound musicians, although the standard was very high for us to be competent, because after all, we were a Premier musical institution. We were performing before heads of state, and we were performing with some wonderful luminaries in the world of entertainment and politics. You name it. And so it wasn't just good enough for us to be cute. We really had to be good. And we were good. We worked doggedly hard, and went to school.
I tell my kids all the time. My day was from, like, seven in the morning till sometimes ten at night, like I didn't come home. And if I was touring, I didn't even realize it, too. My mother said something to me once because my life has been on the road since I was 13. I was on the road. I was just traveling, working, rehearsing. Then I went to College for four years. I was away from home and right out of College, maybe five months after that, I ended up in the circus.
So I've kind of been this. Itinerant my mother when I took a break from the circus. Was she's like, you haven't been home for 18 years. It's true. It's one of those things. But that's the assignment that was given to me, I think. But with regards to what you were asking. Yeah, again, it's just one of those fascinating things where you just constantly work. It's just ongoing. You just had indoor. It was just one of those things you just had endure. There were kids who just would kind of fall away.
And that's how it usually is in most things. As he said, only the pure in tone will survive. So usually it was a behavioral problem that got the kid removed. And then some kids, they just would never because it wasn't for everybody. It wasn't like they can make you into a great thing. And I knew guys who went on several tours with me who weren't the best singers at all or whatever. But they played a role, so to speak. And that's what it was really about.
There was some of us who really legitimately, musically inclined, and you could see, oh, they could possibly make a living doing that. There were others who they were good enough to do what we were doing. And then there probably were others who really didn't have that kind of talent. But they had other things that they brought to the table. And I think that was the wonder of an ensemble having such an ensemble and a fraternity of sorts where you were dependent on each other's energy and what they brought.
And you have people, you know, it wasn't just the talent you have people who are very talented, who just their behavior couldn't hold up. I knew people. They went all over the place. They went to the great countries. They went to the great stages. They met the great people, still ended up in prison and still ended up allowing the streets to engulf them. For me, what worked for me was having a base. My home was really stable. My mother was a nosy, very involved, very hands on parent.
So she actually started their PTA, so to speak, at the boys choir program. She was very involved. She shadowed things. And that was good for me. Other parents did so as well. And the thing I noticed was the parents who were really involved like that. Their children thrived in it. So it does take a village. It takes a village without a shadow of a doubt.
I can see that with my brother's kids. He has three. But you wrote an interesting article about that. How just showing up how really the most important thing you can do for your kids is to just show up and be present and be curious and engaged with what they're doing. And you had a beautiful story about your son where he was joining and starting to just he just picked up the performance without a lot of the fear and the trepidation that you had in the beginning, and he just embraced it so clearly you've channeled a lot of that showing up being there.
How have you built up his resilience and that idea of being a good citizen?
How is that translated for my sons?
For your sons? Yeah.
One of the things that you accept as a parent is the fact that these are still free will individuals. And parenting is birthing yourself. But you're birthing somebody that's completely new and who will constantly surprise you for better and for worse, despite your efforts, whatever those efforts might be, I groomed to understand that it's not always parents. It's not always parents. I remember reading an article of the father who was really bemoaning his son's turn into a lot of racist behavior and he was embarrassed by it.
He said his whole family was just disturbed by it and couldn't understand it. I've seen specials with you could tell this was a good family and they're visiting their son in the penitentiary for who's doing a life sentence for murder. You just don't know. And it works the other way, too. I've met people who you wouldn't think they came from, what they came from because they're so principled and they're so sober minded and they're so productive. And you meet their parents and it's, wow, the antithesis of what came to be.
So these people do have choices. One of the things I always done with my children is obviously I've been blessed to be very present. That's a privilege. I've realized that's a real privilege for many reasons. Not all of us get to be as present as we would like to generally trying to make a living so you can feed them and house them and make sure those needs are taken care of with that, sometimes you just can become neglectful unconsciously. I think most unconsciously do because you're so busy on the grind.
And I think that's unfair. I wish we would fix again. This is where it takes a village and the government is part of the village, where we would really repair the economy in a very fair and equitable way where people have dignity, where they can make a real living wage. And we say real living, that it actually covers their expenses. They can buy a home, they can send their children to higher education, or at least maybe one parent stays home. Wouldn't that be wonderful where you have dignity?
I think that's what people really want. They just want dignity. And our children pick up on those energies. They pick up on a lot of that. And so with my kids in particular, we've just been very hands on my wife and I from the beginning. It's a tradition I inherited from my mother. And again, we've had the privilege of being present. They traveled with us when we were on the tour, which is just something that I am forever indebted to the wonderful Ringling Brothers four that we got to have that privilege.
They spent eight years of their young lives traveling this country, enjoying so much of this nation with their parents. And in truth, I've never really been away from my family, just in very small increments. I've had this wonderful privilege of always just wherever I'm working, they're there. And I think it's been wonderful for their development. But the thing I've always known with my children in particular, I respect what it is. They are. It's kind of like walking on high wire. Every great wire Walker tells you it's not about catching your balance.
It's about taking the next step. So it's more reflexes. And so it's just terrific interesting dance you do. As a parent. For instance, I knew my son was an artist to his core because since he was two, he's a kid in the sandbox. Even now, it's 16. We'll go to a beach. It doesn't matter where we are. He's going to end up in the dirt building something. And so that already signaled to me early in his life that that's sort of what he is. That must be what he is.
And I always believe that you need to value what a person is, the very essence or their very assignment as to what it is they are. And for parents, you have to be present enough to be present in mind to really watch and bless that thing and not try to form them into something that they're not. So you can brag to your friends, really watch and see what it is. They are. So with my son, he has a lot of wonderful traits that, quite frankly, I didn't actually detail for him.
Maybe he picked it up watching how we behave. Some of it seems innate as he loves it. He's such a stand up guy. It's so funny. So he checks us every now and then. He's just one of those people. And it's really encouraging to see he's a very warm and empathetic human being. He has a great diversity of friends. Same with my daughter. She's more of a social butterfly than he is. She's more like me in a personality wise. She has a wonderful diversity of friends.
I remember, actually, she was talking about this little girl she knew in her school, Mia, her name was Mia, and she was talking about it, talking about it. And I had no idea. But Mia had down syndrome, and they had played a and whole thing. And to me, that was a huge deal because this wasn't like her token friend. This was her friend. And she saw her as such. And not only that, she ventured to communicate with her as she understood things like that's, how my daughter works.
I just thought that was something fascinating, because I know when I was a kid, I can't point out when I had a friend who was had down syndrome or even disabled, because in our generation they were others. And to me to see how my children just see people, even with whatever is going on, they don't see it as some strange thing. They're just. Okay, well, they're in this different package. I think that's how they think they're in this different package. My son has friends. They identify differently than the gender they're born with.
And that's new to me. We have conversations about it. We're respectful about it, but he has a real sense about that. And there's a whole language around that. And more importantly, he has a real respectful empathy towards his friends who are, which has caused us to be more respectful. And Owen video in that understanding. Okay. Because again, me growing up, that was like you the others. You're strange. I mean, we have to be honest with that. And that's what it was. I respect that about them.
And I respect the fact with my children. They are so observant to the point where it's frightening. And I didn't realize how much they knew about me until my son was hired to perform my role in a sense, as the younger me, and he had it like it was just natural. It just floated at it. I didn't know that was in him because he never was really into the show. He's into the build of the show when we would be building in and rehearsing and the sets and stuff because he's an artist.
That's what he loved. And the director was very kind to him. They would let him really play with the they would actually give him some of the molds from the white model meetings and things like that to analyze and to even keep to look at. But he wouldn't treat them like to us. He would like draw. He would use them as models. He came up with all of these artistic concepts as a very young boy. And so that was a real thing for him. My daughter can watch the show a million times.
She's more of the show. And so they have that fascinating difference. But it informed their work because she was his understudy for it as well. So she was just blasting ready to go. I knew what she would do, but I was really pleasantly surprised by how he worked and how much of what I did. He knew and knew it well, and it was in his bones. So it's one of those things where I would say the best thing you can do as parent, in my opinion, obviously, you're present.
But you have to respect this as an individual. And my job is to give them a kind of grounding, a good grounding that's unshakable. So I believe in that proverb raised them in the way that they should go. So when they're older, they will not depart from it. And I believe that I think that's something that's girded me my whole life. I think I really had a wonderful, great grounding in my own identity, my faith, how my worldview, all of those things. It wasn't like this rigid type of thing.
But I do recall having great conversations, always with my parents that really not only challenged my thinking, but allowed me to challenge them in a respectful way. Of course, you open your children. It's this beautiful exchange. And I think because of that, it made those things those bedrock foundations that I already had more practical. They weren't just rigid rules I had. But these were practical things where I could look and see. Okay. That's why this is established that way. And this is why it holds up.
I think the story you shared with your daughter and your son both fascinating. And maybe one day they can be on the podcast and talk about that because I think that's beautiful, but clearly like to me anyways, they have been observing you, and they have been watching and challenging and becoming their own, their own people. But you must have. You must approach other people in a very similar way, especially with all the traveling you've done going back to Japan, where you felt like you were accepted. You were welcomed.
You were heard you were listened to, and that seems to have been amplified even further with the circus. And so you had the opportunity to meet so many different types of people that you wouldn't have met otherwise, people that are part of the same team. Right. So clearly they learned that acceptance of another person or a different culture, a different ethnicity, whatever. It was a disability because you were exposed to those things and you expose them to it, too, while traveling, right. That must have played a big part in it.
Absolutely. That was definitely it started for me from the very beginning. I think in my life, being a New Yorker, it did help that I had parents that were like that themselves, despite where they grew up and despite their own many challenges they may have had growing up. My mother one of the things she always told me, my brother and I was I wanted you to have a sense of self expression that I didn't have as a child. It was different for her growing up in the south.
You just couldn't express yourself. You were just directed to go here, there and everywhere. And she was a very obedient child, but that wasn't always good. There were things in her questions and things she wanted to express. And I think that's one of those cases where and her parents were beautiful people, but where you kind of take from the generation and you don't throw the baby out with bathwater, but you okay. Well, let's evolve this. And I definitely took that from her and from both my parents on it.
My father was from Trinidad Tobago, and both of them have a kind of charisma. I would say that I was blessed to maybe attain where they just know how to really acclimate into any kind of environment, which they just have these incredible people skills that just seemed very natural. And my father's Memorial, he was a firefighter. He was a Navy reservist, and there was this diversity of grown, bulky men crying over this guy was like going to the head of state's funeral, and it was really eye opening.
I learned about him more just at this Memorial because it's like, wow, my goodness. He had this incredible impact on people, and they came from various backgrounds. He had one colleague of him through this beautiful portrait, painted this beautiful portrait of him just because it's just a thing to have that kind of effect on people. So I do think it's sort of a generational thing that we want to improve upon with each generation at the heart of it is something my mother always reiterated to me is you love people where they are.
You love people where they are, and you don't have to compromise yourself necessarily, which is something I really harp on my children about. It's fine to be empathetic or loving and all that. But you don't have to ever do anything at the expense of your own self and your own dignity and the own truth that, you know, to be. And that's something I'm very proud of them about. I went to my son's school once. I couldn't believe how popular he was because he's not the most outgoing guy.
He's very cordial, but I didn't realize how many people knew him. It was rather entertaining to see. And it was such a diverse group of people who knew him. And I couldn't take two steps without somebody calling his name. And it could have been a parent. It could have been a teacher. It was some kids parent and these kids parents. Oh, wow. You're his father. Wow. Yeah. My kid always talks about that. This is amazing. And what was most impressive was it wasn't like he had this different personality at school as some kids do.
He was really just himself. And he had this wonderful camaraderie with various individuals, and it was really wonderful and encouraging to observe. And I really admired it. And I admire that trait in him. I think it's something that's grown through our generations, and I think they have that, too.
Empathy goes a long way towards meeting people where they're at understanding who they are and approaching them with dignity and curiosity. And that goes a long way towards making friends authentically, not just to be the popular kid.
Yeah.
I'm curious. As we were moving the conversation along, you mentioned earlier in the talk that you were inspired to be an opera singer. What was the reason when you were approached by the circus? What was the reason that you went through the audition process and you have this dream of being an opera singer? How did that transition happen? What made it so compelling for you to say, you know what? I'm going to be a circus master, and I'm going to do this and not put aside the dream of operating.
It was about history. When somebody approaches you with something that is completely unique and has history behind it. I get to make history and I get to have something that's rather unique. And, of course, I was very young then. So I mean, ringmaster. I thought to myself, that's quite a pickup line I can use to have that I thought was priceless. It was just a matter of opportunity because I knew that kind of opportunity wasn't going to come again. I intended it to be like a year or two, and I would have that great story to tell, because the reality of opera is it's a grown person's activity.
You're not going to be much of an opera singer at 22 years old. You're just not no matter how talented you are, you don't really, in my opinion, you don't really start. And I think this goes across the board in various genres of music. I don't think you really start singing until you're over 40. Really?
Yeah.
I think it has something to do. There's something about that 40 number. I think most 40 year olds is funny. We talk about it. It's like suddenly you have some kind of grasp on life. You've been through some things. You've experienced some things. The reality is, for the first 20 years of your life, you're just hormones. Forget about it in your 20s. You just crazy. Your brain doesn't even fully develop until 25. There's something about those 40s. I think our founding fathers were onto something when they require that you be 35, at least to run for President or the Egyptians.
The ancient Egyptians. The training of a priest took 40 years. And so I think the same thing for real quality singer. Sure, you have your geniuses. And you have people of every genre. I mean, good Lord, anybody who heard Rita Franklin knew she was just molded at the throne of God. But those are rare birds. But I think for the most. But even with her, when she got older, even when she hit her, you could hear the sound takes on a more just a grown up tone to it.
You feel it more I often joke about. My belief is that there were two Frank Sinatras. There was pre Ava Gardener, and there was post Ava Gardner. And quite frankly, pre a gardener. Frank Sinatra was technically a better singer than the Frank Sinatra that you're always listening to. But the last, nobody listens to Pre Ava Gardner. Sinatra. You can't even remember the last time you listen to Pregardner Sinatra. Everybody listens to the comeback Sinatra. That's Sinatra, who has thrown him ridged, he lost all his money, he lost his Fame and dignity.
He attempted suicide. He was down on his luck. And his comeback was arguably the greatest in show business history. And it took a lot out of them. But it gave him something to and I think there's something to that. And of course, it was in his 40s. And when he was singing those songs, now, you could hear the life in them. So for me, as a singer, I was very young. Sorry. I was very young. And I was 22. I was the youngest ring master in the history of Ring Lane Brothers.
So it was a massive opportunity, and it turned into a full career 18 years. And I was fortunate to meet a wife, and we were fortunate to have children there. Let me make sure that's off. I'm sorry. I think it was just wonderful being ringing myself very young and to a degree, honestly, with their role called for I had to grow up fast in it. I really had to grow up fast because it was so demanding. And it was more than just performing. It was being an ambassador for an American treasure.
And it was like running for office constantly. You're kissing the babies. Sometimes those babies have colds you're in different climate. You have to be humble enough to understand that when you're performing with animals, you are second building four legged mammals are there. You're not. Nobody cares about you. All those factors that were in it. But even that being in that position really was a wonderful gave me a wonderful understanding about what it is to truly be a professional performer and how certain things just have to come with time, no matter how talented one is.
Even my attitude and how I saw myself as a ring nest and what I meant to the audience really evolved when I began, my career was like most people, it's very self serving. You want accolades, you want praise, you want the trophies, and you want people. You want the groupies. You want all that stuff. It's about me. Come here. Did I make you happy? But as I matured and it really happened when I got married and I had children, too, I really understood that. One of the great ways to put pressure off of myself is that when you realize you're giving a service, it really lightens you and it actually enhances and strengthens the performance because it's really about, hey, I'm giving this to you.
It's just what I'm presenting to you. I'm not trying to impress you. I'm actually here to serve your imagination. And so I really have that privilege to maturing in the role like that. I always had enthusiasm about it. How could not you? It's the greatest show on Earth. It's like being in this living, marvelous, incredible dream. People doing incredible things, daring things, flying, talking to animals, et cetera, et cetera. How can you not be just enthralled by that? And it fed into how I announced and how I presented artists.
The part about the animals is interesting, and I guess it's always good to maintain the to stay humble, to stay grounded, to remember why a lot of the people are. But they're not just going for that. And the first practical question. So when you took the position and they offered it to you, I'm assuming that you always felt welcome. You always felt a big part of everything because you were the first African American person to be a ringmaster and the youngest, right. So that was obviously for a little bit you were one of one.
So was that experience something that you always felt they gave you everything that you needed to succeed in that role. And it was just a matter of being that ambassador and finding your depth of experience and understanding to make it a better and better show.
I would say they gave me a wonderful platform, and then they throw you in the ocean and you have to figure it out. Okay. I was fortunate that my pedigree helped me in many ways with the traveling I did as a child, with the different people I met. I understood ambassadorship very well. I had a lot of performance experience behind me. I had a lot of great training. I was also people training people skills. When I was in Voice Cry of Harlem, part of our performance was after it.
We would go out into the lobby of the concert hall, and we would line up across the hallway and we would meet our audience. And that was a part of grooming us to be good citizens. We would have etiquette classes and competitions at the boys choir program. I always called it a charm school for boys. Before we would visit nations, foreign nations, we would have a liaison who would come in and teach us certain customs, the do's and don'ts and things like that. So we had a good handle of culture and etiquette and things of that nature.
And so much of that held me in good stead. When I came to the greatest show on Earth, it was dealing with new people and things like that. It wasn't a culture shock. I think my position covered me in many respects because I'm the voice. So whatever people were feeling, whether they were for this black man standing there doing that, this young guy doing it or not, it didn't matter. I had the owner on speed dial and he made it clear you make him happy. He did.
He told the general manager that I had an interesting kind of covering. I don't know if it was authentic with some people. It didn't matter. What I learned quickly was that's not really what the aim is. The aim is are we producing a great product and the surface to show is the star. And as long as people are showing up in giving what they say, they're going to give to it all as well. Obviously, we live with each other, too. So you have to have some kind of respectability.
But I think my respect came rather quickly when it was clear that I was more than sufficient for the position. It wasn't like these people just welcome you in there with open arms. They want to see what you like. It's like Showtime at the Apollo. And rightfully so, because these are folks who are risking their lives doing what they do to make people smile. And they have a right to have someone represent them. That they feel is quality. And that's what I wanted to give. And that's always been the highest compliment for me was to be able to be a conduit for that kind of energy and enthusiasm to present them, the artist to the audience.
I always enjoyed that. I always enjoyed when the artist would tell me how my voice livened them before their act, and they felt like they had to live up to whatever it is. I hyped them up to be. And I said, of course, because my privileges, I got to see behind the curtain. I got to see how the magic was made, and I got to see the blood, sweat and patience that these people put into their work. It's a lot, and I don't think audiences really appreciate it nor shit there.
They're coming to be taken away, and we don't do it. So you know how hard we work. You can obviously see we work hard, but our job is to really honor your time, your money and your imagination, and my job as ringmaster has always been to really make you aware of what it is you're taking what it is you're taking in. And if I'm enthusiastic about it, I'm sure as heck is going to make you feel enthusiastic about it. You're going to feel what's happening if I'm there to announce it, isn't.
It also a beautiful thing. And this ties into the Omnium Circus and this whole new project, right? It's a beautiful thing for somebody else to see your performance, whether yes, of the same ethnicity, same race, same gender. Those things matter. We want to see growing up going to the circus. I never saw anybody who looked like me. I never saw it in Hollywood films, either, unless sometimes the occasional villain or the pity story. Right? So I never got to see that bigger part of myself represented in anything.
Really. So the fact that you're bringing your full self, it can break down the barrier for somebody else to say, like, wow, Jonathan was incredible today. I hear these kids at school. Or why am I thinking that I need to judge somebody based on the color of their skin or what gender they are or how they look. Right. So you're representing something really powerful and you're shining a light on judge me as a performer. Judge me by what I'm bringing to the table and the good time that I'm showing you, not by an appearance, right?
Not by how I look or who I am.
Well, it's a fascinating dynamic because it's all about the recipient. They have the choice to either idolize you or humanize you, and I prefer they do the latter because you idolize. Then you make them to be what you want them to be. And suddenly you start cutting away things that you don't have a right to. We don't have a right to take away people's natural bin toward being good, bad and ugly. My mother always just tells me that all the time about celebrities I would admire. And she said, Remember that's a human being, that's a person, they bleed red like you.
They go to the bathroom just like you. They have their Angels and demons. You look at it now you see how I guess, what do you call a cancel culture, right. But a lot of people, we have such a problem accepting that everybody has a shadow. There's a personality thing. But then there's also a thing of realizing that I think for some people, it's hard to actually recognize that they could be cheering for and admiring this person who is so very different than them in the same breath have no respect for that person as just an everyday person, just as a person, just as who they are.
We see it with athletes all the time. Black athletes, in particular. They're the greatest thing in the world when they're running that ball. But if they take a knee and say, hey, I'm a human, too. And I would appreciate if you stop killing people who look like me, then they're shunned because you idolize what they do. And so it's taught me to be wise about. Just because people love what you do doesn't mean they necessarily respect who you are. And one of the interesting dances that has developed for me in my careers, understanding that.
And I learned that really early when I was in a Voice of Harlem. The power of performing is a very seductive thing when you see people who do it and do it, well, it takes you away as it should no longer. Are you looking at that person just as a person. And it's a captivating thing to see. People are going to see it when they see Jim Bricker Bauer, they're going to see it when they see others of just various shapes and sizes and man, how do they do that?
It's really about how you receive it and really what's been there before. And I've seen people. It's so fascinating. It's one of the reasons I struggled when I first started. I didn't want people to come there and be so ensconced with me being the first black American. But I understood it later on, from the point of view of, let's say, my grandfather, my grandfather came and show my grandmother and my maternal grandparents. And to see people of that age turning to six year olds is funny and fun.
And I was struggling with the whole I just want people to really just really enjoy what I do. I've worked really hard on my voice. I worked really hard being a performer, and they were enjoying that. In fact, I really started seeing that. And so I didn't want to emphasize the first black and everything. But it wasn't really until I met with my grandfather came to show and he just loved it. He was just so happy. And he just sat quietly for a second while we were talking, he said, there was a time I couldn't sit where I wanted to.
I can be here. And that just took my breath away. And he goes, here I am in the middle of all this. And there's my grandson and I would have encounters like that. I remember meeting these two beautiful ladies in Alabama. These two beautiful women, elderly women, two elderly black women looked like they were 20 years of junior. And they were so wonderful. And I just noticed they kept looking at me and just having that they were chuckling and not in a way where they were ridiculing me or any of it.
It was like a proud chuckle. I noticed it, and they were ushers at the particular facility we were at. And the lady, she's so sweet. She says, Son, she said, we can go to this with new kids. We can go to men like this with new kids. She said, You're so good to see you out here. You just don't know. And I said, wow, okay. Those encounters made me really more and more comfortable with the first title and really made me understand, you know, what? It really isn't about me and having certain accounts, having the privilege of people actually expressing and telling me what I meant.
I mean, I met families. I remember there's a gentleman still in contact with till his day. He never fails to tell me how I literally changed the trajectory of his daughter's life with a compliment about I used to wear braces. And so she came. She was beautiful little redheaded girl, and she had braces. And I would always say, the kids, we have braces. And I meet them and say, oh, you're going to be as good looking as the ringmaster. I'd say something like that, and some would light up.
And whatever this one, he said, I can't tell you how much it opened her up when you said that. It's one of these throwaway lines I had that I would use with every kid. But for some reason, with this particular young lady, it caused her to open up more. And eventually she went into the theater and things like that. And so that meant something to that family. I really had a diverse fan base, admirers who I've been privileged enough to hear how my presence actually mattered to them.
And so as a friend of mine taught me the great Kevin Bernardo, who was also a ring master Bernardo circus. He said, It's not our right to take that away from them. So let's say you have a performance, and you don't really think you did great. You think you were just horrible or whatever. And suddenly you have this kid crying, this family and they're blown away by what you did. Well, you know what, then? It was great. And I've always taken that attitude from then on.
My attitude is I belong to my audience, and there are things sure, I'm kind of old school, so I don't take my politics or take my certain beliefs or whatever on to that. I just don't do that. I don't believe it belongs in those spaces. And I don't have any objections to people who get to a point where they feel, depending on the particular situation. They may need to shock people into empathy. But for me, personally, I just don't I think there has to be this hollow space, and I leave it as such for my audience because it's fantastically diverse.
Everybody loves searches. And I think I have a more effective opportunity through the talent and through what you're seeing, to invite you into the person. And that's happened more often than not. And I still, to this day get wonderful messages from people who grew up on my voice. I got this wonderful letter from a young man who I remember when I wrote him, when he told me what I said, oh, my goodness. I remember I wrote this kid. He must have been, I think, four when he came to see me now, he's in College, and he talked about how he kept that letter.
He framed that letter, and he refers to that letter every time he's feeling doubt about himself and stuff like that. I don't know. I kind of forgot what I wrote, but I know it has something to do with opening his imagination and reading and that he could truly do what he wanted to do and things like that. And so in that respect, I have this wonderful privilege to transcend many of societies would be limits on me. And I think that's why so many of us kind of venture toward Fame and such things, because you get this interesting privilege with these talents to transcend a lot of the superficial nonsense, because that's what it is all of these labels, all of these categories where you get to a point where hopefully people are just seeing you as a human being who just happens to do something really wonderfully.
Well, that brings them some kind of joy. You know, it doesn't work for everybody. Some people have to keep you in their idle box. That's their right. There's nothing we can do about that. But that's one of the reasons I respect this show, Omnium so much is that it's not using anybody as some kind of token hire to check boxes. It's literally the whole objective is to remind people that, yeah, this person may come in a different pigment than you. This person may have a different immigration status.
This person's body may function differently than yours, but they're not the other. They're your neighbor. Your neighbor just happens to know how to fly, even if they don't have legs. And your neighbor knows how to do these incredible things, though they may love differently than you. It's just all of these. I think that's the power of the performing arts in many respects. It ignites this universal bidding we have toward the transcendent and beauty and what is good. And it's amazing that you don't need any special training to know when you see something that is beautiful and that is good and that it matters to your imagination.
It sounds like Omnium is taking that duality that you talked about with the performance and actually humanizing the performers more and bringing that wider mix of people together and just saying, look at what we can do. Look at what's possible. Look at how beautiful all of this is. It's just taking it to the next level by including more people or a wider range of abilities. And it's not to say somebody has less talent or more talent. They're all talented, but they're just expressing themselves in different ways.
Yes. And also it's getting us out of our limited vision of who these people are. I think that's the best part of it, because to me, I'm fascinated by somebody like a Jim Brick and Bower born with no legs, but she's an aerialist, and she is freakishly strong. I hugged her when I saw her, and I was so happy to see her finally offline. Everybody's so happy to see everybody offline. And she's just terrifically built and the power it takes to do aerial work. I mean, you need your core muscles, and of course, we know the bulk of that is your lower body.
Well, she doesn't have it. And the fact that she's being able to find success and do quality work, too. And that's the key, too. These aren't people just, oh, look at this. So nice. They got to know it's quality work. And I do look forward to that where, yeah. What would happen if we saw maybe competitions where it's more blended? Can this person missing this, compete with the supposedly full body person could it happen? Who knows? I think it's this glorious testament to the human spirit, how people adjust.
I think it takes strength, especially for those who, like, let's say, like Ray Charles, he wasn't born blind. He went blind or somebody who's gone and served our country, and they've come back and they're missing parts of themselves, whether it be physical or mental. And then they find ways to how do I reshape my life? How do I rebuild from that? I mean, that takes a tremendous amount of courage, but it's life, right? Because we're always rewriting the script. You have to this pandemic showed you.
It's the privilege we have, too, even if it's forced upon us to have that privilege, it's a privilege where you can literally say, Wait a minute. I don't have to stay on this chapter or just because this chapter was ripped out for me. Well, I don't have to stay bemoaning that chapter being written ripped out for me. I can actually move on and write another chapter as hard as it is. And we can't ever underestimate that, too. This is a real harrowing thing for people. I saw a documentary recently, one of my favorite singers, the great Teddy Pinagrass.
And we all know his famous story. This man was like, I mean, he was the ultimate sexy icon singer. He used to have ladies, Knights that fell out. And his beautiful baritone just so masculine. There was a gentleman who described he said he was just uncanningly beautiful. He's just all that. And then he ends up in this tragic car accident where he becomes quadriplegic to go from the height to being this to that. And they talked about what was that like to have that transition. And he still, eventually, after going through that dark chapter of his life, managed to have a real reputable career.
He still figured out how to sing. And that was fascinating to me, because obviously, singers, real singers. You use your body. Well, he couldn't move this part of his body, but his arms. He's still at you. So they devised a way where he could it could help him breathe. And I just thought, Man, it's fascinating. You will find a way. I think that's why we have people in these different shapes and sizes, as I say, because they actually, in my opinion, are reminders to us of how utterly unstoppable the human spirit is.
Like, you can't break that thing. You can't break it. In a sense. You stop looking at folks like that in this very pitiful way, which you never should. And I have to be careful because I was so fascinated with, let's say, Jim Brookabower's story, you can almost end up idolizing them. But it's just one of those things where you go, man, how you know, this takes a certain amount of fortitude to really go on with your life and make something of it not just survive, but actually thrive.
I remember really understanding that more and more. Even when I was in Ringling Brothers, a gentleman I partnered with in the show. He was a little person, and he's a martial artist. He's a dancer. He was literally, in my opinion, the most talented individual on the show physically. And he was freakishly strong. He would lift me up. I was about 250 back then, and he would lift me on his shoulders. We do this when we go speak to kids about bullying, and he tell his story about coming up in his native Brazil, learning his martial art and what he went through and the bullying he went through and how he won respect and stuff like that.
And then at the end, he would literally put me on his shoulders and spin me around and kids would freak out. I would freak out because it always freaked me out to believe in, and he squat and the whole thing. But this man who's thrived his whole life and honestly think his presence in my life really was wonderful for my kids, because that was their play on everybody and children as a means of respect, probably all Chio uncle. So that was their uncle, so to speak.
And it was so funny as the children would grow on this show. He was kind of like the bark when they saw they were getting taller than him. But just see there, they still maintain the respect for him as the man he is. He's still a husband and father had children of his own and the whole bit. And I really did. And I hate when people say this. I don't really see this. It wasn't that. It was like I was just enamored by how much I grew.
Where.
It was just him. That's who he is. Of course, he's a little person. We know that he had his limits. He could literally do anything. But sometimes he come to a place like, I need you to reach that thing for me. It's what it is. But all of that encompasses a person. And suddenly it's not about, oh, this is my little person friend, or this is my friend who doesn't have the legs. It's just this is this human being and you're seeing them in their fullness. And that, to me, is what Almium is about.
It's about affording full dignity to the people under that big top, whatever package they come in. And that's for our audience as well. That's why we have all of those accommodations that we are learning to embrace as well. And one of the things we have in our show, which is a wonderful, beautiful assignment I have as an artist, is the muse, as I call her that. I work alongside. She's deaf, but she's a dancer and a gymnast, and she is the one who is also using ASL translating what I say.
But she is her own autonomous being that's there. She's not my sidekick. But during the process. It's been a wonderful learning experience for us both to learn that language because her hearing is, like, terribly minimal, of course. So she can hear a bit. But I have to position myself in a certain way. There's a pacing. And so we've been working on just getting our rhythm where it just comes and comes and boom, it's just there. And so we just will become one in that respect. But it's wonderful to see, because it's not even about like, she is this full out performer, and she's really good.
And she's really strong and talented. And she gets to be the physical embodiment of the language of omnium while I am the audible embodiment of that. And so I think it's a new way of doing art, quite frankly, where it's just the goal is that it's just normal. It's not like, oh, look at the depth. No, it's just normal. This is reintroducing everyone to how vastly wonderful and in depth the human family is. Regarding a quote I remember I learned it from another gentleman. Diversity is what happens to you.
Inclusion is what you choose. And we are choosing to be actively inclusive and not in that pitiful way, but in a real human way. How do I understand you? And how can you understand me? And just seeing the communication that we go through with each other? It's quite beautiful and quite wonderful. And I think that's what's made circus work for so long that you could put all of these people from different backgrounds, different nations and different cultures together in one center ring. And they instinctively know I can't really do what I do apart from you.
So whatever prejudices I might have or whatever I may or may not think of you, it really doesn't matter, because when you're 40ft in the air in a trapeze rig, you really don't care if your catcher is an immigrant. If he's black or white, he's gay. You don't care. You just want them to catch it?
Absolutely. I haven't seen it yet. But I am so looking forward to it because there's just so many powerful elements that are coming together at the right time. You're doing it in the right way. I guess in music, you would call it variations on the theme, right?
Yes. I love that description. I love that. I've never thought of that. But yes, really. And circus is like that. And I think all the performing arts, right. You can always evolve human expression. I think that's what we're doing. We're evolving human expression in some circuses. They even incept machinery. One of my favorite shows I've seen is called Circ Mechanics, and it's wonderful. They involve, like, bicycles and all sorts of things along with the artist. That's the beauty of it. How far can you stretch this imagination?
And it does come back down to the mind. How else do you get people who seemingly have physical limitations who, despite those things, are doing really hard stuff. I'm never getting up into the trapeze rig ever. It's never going to happen. And I've got all my limbs. It doesn't matter. I'm not doing it. But there's always somebody daring enough who, despite what we may see, they have something that's ticking in them that they have to get up there nonetheless. And I think it is, of course, I love the lessons.
It will give all people who see it all people who see it. How can you not see the show and not realize how? In fact, we have no right not to be a community, not to have empathy for our neighbor, to pretend we can't really meet and meet together, meet in the middle, and really have a real honest, sincere dialogue and get over our little because I think a lot of things we see outside the searches, as I say in the so called real world, it's just motivated by fear.
It's motivated by fear. You're not used to what's outside your square box. So if it's not in your square box, there's something odd. And of course, I mean, sure, I think everybody has that thing with you. For the first time, you see somebody that's just very different from you. I remember how my children, my son reacted when he first saw that we were in a playground. He was young and he saw a little girl with no arms and he didn't freak out or anything. But you can see this curious look on his face.
Of course you have curious looking. I'm fortunate he didn't lean into his fear, but he leaned into curiosity, if anything. And that's something that I think it's missing. It's our appreciation for the simple gift of wonder, which is something I said when the circus was closing. I fear people will lose that longing for wonder. Just simple gift of wonder and curiosity. It's something that is so vital. It's something we instinctively have as children as the great doctor, the scientist Dr. Neil Degrasse Tyson speaks of we're naturally scientists.
What do they do? You go walking around with the puddle and he slammed a puddle. We're naturally signed that's. Why. What do they do? They taste everything it goes in the mouth and stuff like that. We're just naturally sound with that. I wish that upon us all where we start, we're more curious and we live in wonder of what's there. And of course, you have to have some kind of caution, because everything isn't for you. But when it comes to your neighbor, if we can lean into, this is my neighbor rather than this is the other.
I think we would mend a lot of the broken pieces around us. This is just my neighbor and not the other.
I agree. I think when I was young, I was born, so it was always a part of my life. But I remember the kids who I usually became friends with. They approached me with curiosity. It wasn't. I'm being mean or I'm being nosy or I'm being a jerk. I'm curious. Like, why are you this way? Why are you different? I've always accepted that it was actually very easy. But then you had the other ones. Maybe they'd sneer. They'd laugh. They'd be mean about it like, no, I don't want you understood right away.
Like they're seeing me as the other. They're not curious and curiosity and wonder. I'm glad you said that. It's vital. That's the whole point. It's hard to be offended by somebody who approaches you from a place of I just want to understand. I want to learn. I want to see you for you. And I don't know what that is because I haven't experienced it. Like, teach me. Show me. Let me be a part of this.
And that's a beautiful thing. It shows you how crucial it is to teach our children to be against fear, because a lot of that is fear. People grow up in their comforts and to avoid things. They developed this mean streak and develop this mean streak, which is we see it all the time now. People are a lot crueler than they should be with just the most mundane things, just most mundane things. Vaccine. People are just cruel and cruel. But that is at the heart of that. That's just a fear.
And a lot of people do have it. You just have these fears. And how do you react to that? Some people react to it. Wait a minute. I don't really have to be scared of it. I just need to ask some questions. I need to just open up about this. Wow. That's interesting. Your body functions like that. That's okay. I think to be quite Frank with you, I think a lot of people don't give today's youth much credit, but I think a lot of them, at least what I've observed from my children, the company they keep.
I notice that with certain their friends, and I notice how they have a low tolerance for kids who step out of line and are cruel. They just have a lower tolerance for it. And so in our respect, I do appreciate the kind of they call them snowflakes, but I appreciate that because I think they're checking us. It's like, no. Maybe you should rethink how you say things, how you look at a person. Maybe it isn't them being selfish. Maybe you're just being a hard hit. Maybe you should reconsider.
And just because especially with women, I've noticed women put up with certain things and it's like, whatever. But it doesn't mean it's right. And so maybe I think when people aren't comfortable with having to evolve, they get a bit nasty. But I think we have to respect the reality that evolution in spirit and mind and body is a part of the human experience. You have to grow. You have to see the world different at a certain age than you did at a younger age. You should.
I would hope I would hope you've experienced certain things. And I think that would be the same for your neighbor. How I think of people of different backgrounds and people who love differently than I do is far different than what I would have thought of when I was 15.
Absolutely.
And it should be. It should be a bit broader. Maybe it's not always necessarily the most sympathetic. I don't know, but at least something should be working here. I should be in a place now because I've been around enough people and enough different people to ask a question or to observe. Okay. Okay.
Don't you think, Jonathan also for me. And I don't like the term Snowflake either. But when I think of people describing that type of person for me, what I see sometimes with youth is where that label maybe has some validity is that it feels like they threw out the baby with the bathwater to get back to where we started in this conversation. Life is hard. We need that resilience. We need that toughness. I'm not going to give up if I really want something where I fear for the younger generation is I need to expose myself more to them.
But I don't know if I'm seeing that right. There's a sense. Where are you really willing to put in the work to master something? Or is this just like, how do I hack this? How do I shortcut this? How do I get faster? That's what worries me.
No, I hear you, and it's legitimate. I think it's a legitimate concern, but I don't think it's unique to this generation. I think they have more tools and more things to play with them. So I think as things advance, it becomes more pronounced. Social media has clearly made it clear to us that we no longer have a 24 hours news cycle. We have a 62nd news cycle, so everything moves so fast and it becomes very unforgiving. This is about who put it out first. And when it comes to, yeah, how do you work through something?
So case in point with my son. I had him take an elective in Orchestra. He was in theater first, but I know his personality and know him enough. I said, You're not a theater person, your sister's theater person, but you're not. It's like, okay, what do you say? Honestly, the way your brain works, I think an instrument would be good for you. Try it, see how it is. And so he did. He went in Orchestra, and he just randomly picked up the Violet, and he was really good.
His music director was very good. Called me. She said, you really got to get him a teacher. He's really good. And I went and got him teacher. And this woman was amazing. She's great for him. One of those practical teachers. But I know my child so I could feel in him. Although he was good at it, he just didn't have a love for it. And it wasn't something I was passionate for him. But he started moving himself to the double bass. He started showing his big interest in the double base, to the point where he starts begging me to get him double base.
And, of course, it's one of the most expensive and biggest instruments in all the Orchestra. But it works for him because he's a rather sizable young man as his father. So I said, Farmer, I'm going to get you this base, but you can never stop playing it. That's the deal, because the show he put on to get this base, he actually incorporated his art. He made a makeshift based out of cardboard and a string. I was blown away and he manifested this thing. And so I got it with money I didn't have.
And I said, you can never stop playing. So now he's all county at school, it was 80. Do they have to audition? His teachers have said, no, you belong in all counties. So she elected him. And it was wonderful. And so he's been going to Zahl County meetings and things like that. And it's one of those things where I know what you're saying. I want for our children. Kind of what I had in a boys choir. I want children to learn the necessity of dog at work, the necessity of going for something and being able to manage failure, being able to manage, not being necessarily that good at it from the start, but to learn the gift of patience and temperance and learning how to lose with Grace and learning the lesson in that.
I think that's something that does concern me. Learning how. Okay, well, you may have this limit here. How do you compensate? Because it's so much more rewarding. I remember how just fruitful my teen years were because I just worked to manifest something after. You know, you put in your best effort. It's the greatest feeling in the world, but there's also a great peace. I think one gets even if they may not hit the moon and they fall on a few stars. I don't think you fail.
It's like I put in the effort on what it is I really wanted to do. I put it out there, and I think it's really more about the process than the destination. A lot of us, I think that's what's not being handled correctly. As you said, you can't hack everything. You can't hack through everything you can't find a shortcut. And quite frankly, you're not going to appreciate it. There's so much you find just going through something, just going through something, going through the trial. There's so much you gain from that that gives you a certain strength about it.
And people who have been through those things they're built different when stuff comes up again, it's like I noticed it in my process and growing as a ring master, there were things that just couldn't shake me. Certain things would happen and go off. And I just was unmovable because I could dig and dig in my well of experience and go. I've been here before. I got that scar over here before. I know what that feels like. It wasn't that bad. I can give you this thing.
It's wonderful to cultivate courage. And I think that's what we're talking about. Unique courage is really the Genesis of every other virtue. You don't have courage, you don't have anything. You don't even have love. It takes so much courage and strength. As Martin Luther King said, it takes strength to love. And courage is the Genesis of all of that. And I do wish that upon this generation, no matter how they're formed, is that they master the art of courage. It's an ongoing thing throughout your whole life.
I think there are levels to it. Obviously, it's like being a bodybuilder. You just build up to the weight, build up to the weight. And I wish everybody becomes a mis. Olympia.
I think that's super well said. And I think the idea that you just presented of courage being the foundation of it is something that merits a lot of exploration. I haven't thought about it in that way in a long time, and it's a terrific point. And I think you're absolutely right. I feel. Jonathan, I could literally do this podcast with you for three or 4 hours because we could just keep talking. I want to be respectful of your time. Is there anything that you think I missed that is important to talk about?
No, not at all. We mentioned the website, omniumcircuit. Org. We are a non for profit, so we could always use support and your partnership and all those good things because we look at it as it's your circus. It's one of those things. That's why we set it up the way we did, because we want people to feel like they see themselves when they come to our show and they see themselves at the best. You see yourself flying, you see yourself doing something a bit daring or funny or just outrageous.
I want everybody to share in that wonderful circus ring. And I think one of the great things about our show is that no family member has to be left behind because, of course, that is the case when going to certain live events. You have children on autism spectrum, some who can't handle the noise, it's always something. And we want full family experiences. We want something where everybody feels like, oh, my goodness, we don't have to use a special babysitter. We all can come and enjoy it.
And they have accommodations for everybody. And we do. We do. And everybody's welcome. Under our big top, we want everybody to feel welcome. It's set up so well that there is an accommodation that is missing for anyone. Everyone is welcome and everyone is normal under our big top ten. We serve you, and we accommodate you, and we'd love to hear from you with regards to whatever blind spots we might have ourselves. We're trying our best to really have active inclusivity that is sincere. That is real.
That isn't pandering or anything like that. But that is respecting the full humanity of our fellow brothers and sisters in whatever form they may come in. And I think it just broadens and heals us as a people. Honestly, that's why I think Omnium is more of a mission, and I think it's so very important for people. And I hope it does experience massive success beyond just, hey, it employs me, but I wanted to be something that lives on many decades after its founders and those who help establish it.
I wanted to become a part of the culture, and I wanted to become so much part of the culture that one day we started looking at our neighbors. It's just neighbors, just neighbors and not. Oh, that's that guy over there with the missing thing or whatever. It's just my neighbor, and it would cause us force us, at least in a wonderful way, to broaden our language. How do we I'm kind of inspired to learn ASL myself as I'm seeing it all the time now, in the rehearsal process, I'm like, maybe that's something I might have to get a hold of.
But first, I have to learn Brazilian Portuguese because my wife of 20 years has been looking at me like, you're shameful shameful. Everybody in my family is at least bilingual, except me. I have to be the Gringo.
I was born in Brazil.
Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. My kids are fluid. My wife spoke to them out of the womb since they can go back and forth. My son's learning Japanese. He's telling me he's into that because he's in the anime and they know some Spanish, too. But I told him I said, Get those languages, too. It's right next door. Just learn it. Just learn it. Get it done.
Absolutely. But what you described just now, with the mission of Omnium and the legacy that you're hoping to bring to the table to me, that just sounds like I got misty eyed, and I was like, I need to go see it. I need to go experience this and be a part of it. However, I can, however, we can help because it sounds like a dream. It's like a dream come true. That's the dream of humanity right there. You're trying to make it manifested into a reality that's beautiful.
Yes, absolutely. That's the mission that's the mission and all are welcome.
Thank you so much for the time. Thank you so much for this amazing conversation. I hope we can do it again. I look forward to staying in touch and helping amplify the mission as much as we can.
I appreciate you welcoming me.
You'd be well, my friend thank you very much, bye.
Helpful links:
Big Top Voice: bigtopvoice.com
Omnium Circus: OmniumCircus.org